It's The Economy, Stupid: Insiders Say Fiscal Policy Is Key to Debate

Wisconsin's Democratic insiders say President Barack Obama should focus on his successes of the past, while Republicans want challenger Mitt Romney to hit the president hard on the economy during their first tilt Wednesday night.

During their first debate Wednesday night, President Barack Obama should hang his hat on his big economic initiatives during his first term, while GOP challenger Mitt Romney should focus on the president's inability to help the economy.

That's the consensus of political insiders in both parties in Patch's latest "Blue Wisconsin" and "Red Wisconsin" surveys. 

Twenty-nine percent of Democratic insiders say the president should focus on his initiatives from the last 3-1/2 years and make the case that big programs like Obamacare and the auto bailout are economic successes.

"His policies benefit all people by enabling them to earn a living wage and have enough money to be able to spend, pay taxes and propel the economy forward," one Democratic insider said.

About 39 percent of Republicans surveyed say Romney's main focus in the debate should be pointing that "Obama can't help the US economy."

"Obama does not have the knowledge or experience needed to turn the economy around - as has been shown over the last four years," a GOP insider said.

Another 21 percent of Democrats said the most important idea Obama should convey Wednesday is that Romney "will tilt his tax policy toward the rich, if elected."

Among Republicans, 23 percent said Romney should make the case that he has the "private sector experience needed to help the U.S. economy."

You're invited: Watch Wednesday's presidential debate at Patch's viewing party

Unlike a scientific poll of voters, which typically surveys hundreds of people, the Patch surveys take the pulse of some of Wisconsin's most influential Republicans and Democrats.

Patch sent questionnaires to 99 key Republican activists, elected officials, bloggers, and others who agreed to anonymously give their opinions in a series of surveys between now and the November election. Patch received completed surveys from 66 people — or 68 percent of those surveyed.

A total 42 Democratic insiders responded to the survey, a 66 percent response rate.

An opportunity for Romney?

Republican influencers surveyed by Patch overwhelmingly believe the debate could provide a boost to Romney, who is behind in most national and swing state polls. And a Patch survey released Tuesday showed that Wisconsin Republican insiders are less confident that Romney will win in Novemb than Democrats.

Related story: Democrats feeling more confident about November than GOP

However, 71 percent of the Republicans insiders surveyed agreed or strongly agreed with the statement that "Romney will use the debate to turn his campaign around."

"I think Mitt Romney is going to do very well," said one Republican. "He is a stronger debater than most people realize - and stronger than he was early on."

Added another GOP insider: "This could be a game-changer for Romney."

Comments show stark contrast

The comments of those surveyed show a stark contrast in perception toward the president and his first term and how each candidate should convey his message Wednesday night.

For example, to the question of what issue must their candidate focus on to win over the undecided in Wisconsin, a Democratic insider said the president should convey "how he has created 30 straight months of job growth," while a GOP influencer wrote the Republican should convey "43 straight months of unemployment over 8 percent with more people out of work now than when he took office."

Another example of this contrast is found in the next question of how each can galvanize their base in Wisconsin during the debate. A Romney supporter said he should focus on "his plan for the economy and how Obama has been missing in action since his doomed stimulus plan failed." 

On the flip side, a Obama supporter said the president should focus on "the opportunity to create a better life for all people." 

Obama's health care plan should also be a focus for each candidate, according  survey participants. One Democrat said the president should portray his "understanding of health care," while a GOP insider said Romney should articulate that "Obamacare will be the final nail in the coffin of our nation's economy." 

Election will determine economic direction 

The responses also suggested the candidates focus on the country's economy if either is elected. A Democrat said the president should "emphasize the importance of Obama's re-election to the lower, middle and even upper-middle income homes. Mitt Romney does not - cannot - understand what it is like to live like a regular American. President Obama can, and he's got our backs." 

In contrast, a Republican said Romney should focus on the fact that "he will get the economy back on track and create jobs for the 23 million struggling for work."

Insiders of both parties had dozens of debate suggestions for Obama and Romney.

Some of the points raised by Democrats included:

  • "Obama needs to hammer Romney about being elitist and out of touch. I think that resonates with voters."
  • "Romney will be tremendously challenged to show that he is personable and cares about ALL Americans."
  • "Obama needs to push foreign policy and push what he has done for students, talk about the alternative energy of the future, and the Pell Grant expansion. Hit Romney on areas where he is weak and do it in a way where you let him make himself look bad."
  • "Mitt seems to have a short fuse. Hit him on Bain Capital, his dismal jobs record in Massachusetts, and the federal money he received and wasted in the Salt Lake City Olympics."

Republican insiders also had plenty of debate suggestions for Romney, including:

  • "It's time for Romney to be bold and go after the failures of Obama, as there are many."
  • "Romney should focus on the lies Obama's campaign is telling the public on almost every issue."
  • "Romney needs to show passion. His nature is to be reserved and measured, but he needs to show voters that he is excitable and passionate about the issues and his vision for the country."
  • "Mitt Romney has to come out and show that he can really handle Obama. It's time the adults took over the White House again."

Patch will be conducting Red Wisconsin and Blue Wisconsin surveys between now and the election in hopes of determining the true sentiment of active members of both parties in the Badger State.

Participants in Patch's Red Wisconsin Survey are:

Jim  Bender, president of School Choice Wisconsin, former chief of staff for Assembly Republican Leader Jeff Fitzgerald; Bill Berdan, first vice chairman, Wauwatosa Republicans; Keith  Best, public relations chairman for Waukesha County Republicans;  Bob Bradley, party activist; Charles Brey, field director for state Assembly candidate Tracy Herron; Tracy Brodd, Republican campaign worker; Paul  Bucher, former Waukesha County district attorney and candidate for Wisconsin attorney general; Roy Catron, Tea Party activist; Andrew Cegielski, former Milwaukee County Board candidate; Sara Conrad, party activist; Bill Cosh, spokesman for the state Department of Natural Resources; Michael Crowley, Waukesha County supervisor; Jake Curtis, former state Assembly candidate; Lou D'Abbraccio, board member, Racine County Republican Party;  Brian Dey, Racine County Tea Party member; Fred Dooley, conservative blogger; Steven Duckhorn, former Republican candidate for Milwaukee County sheriff; Bill Folk, chairman of Racine County Republican Party;Elisabeth Friesen, Republican activist; Jesse Garza, chairman, St. Croix County Republican Party; Mark Green, senior director of the U.S. Global Leadership Coalition, former U.S. ambassador to Tanzania and former congressman; Chris Haines, longtime campaign volunteer and former GOP campaign manager; Deb Hawley Jordahl, conservative strategist and consultant; John Hiller, co-chair of Scott Walker's transition team as governor; Sandra Hollander,  member of Mitt Romney's  “Juntos con Romney” leadership team; Ethan Hollenberger, former chairman of the College Republicans at Marquette University and staff member on several legislative campaigns; Mark Honadel, state reprsentative, 21st District; Marguerite Ingold, party activist; Valerie Johnson, former GOP fundraiser and staffer for various campaigns; Thomas J. Keeley, political consultant; Scott Kelly, communications director for former state Sen. Van Wanggaard; Cindy Kilkenny, conservative blogger; Rik Kluessendorf, attorney and former state Assembly candidate; Dan Knodl, state representative, 24th District; Tif Koehler, campaign volunteer and civic leader; Johnny Koremenos, regional field director for Tommy Thompson campaign; Gordon Lang, member of North Shore Republicans; Chris Larsen, trustee in Village of Sturtevant Trustee; Noelle Lorraine, field coordinator for Americans for Prosperity; John P. Macy, first vice chairman of Waukesha County Republican Party; Kathleen Madden, Waukesha County Clerk of Circuit Court; Ginny Marschman, party activist; Jessica McBride, conservative columnist; Bill McCoshen political consultant and; former cabinet secretary for Gov. Tommy Thompson; Joe Medina, party activist; Randy Melchert, field director for Mark Neumann's campaign; Gerald Mellone, Brookfield alderman; Ryan Morgan, conservative blogger; Dean Munday, conservative blogger; Mark Neumann, U.S. Senate candidate and former congressman; Kelly O'Brien, founder of Shorewood Citizens for Responsible Government; Eric Wm. Olsen, conservative activist; Nick Oliver, state Assembly candidate, 22nd District; Victoria Ostry, treasurer of the Wisconsin Federation of Republican Women.; Rick Owen, Brookfield alderman; Monnine  Parnitzke, party activist; Steve Ponto, mayor of Brookfield; Don Pridemore, state representative, 99th District; Paris Procopis, grassroots activist; Jim  Pugh, director of public relations and issue management for Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce; Denise Rate, Tea Party member; Bob Reddin, Brookfield alderman and executive director, Jobs First Coalition; Pam Reeves, treasurer, Waukesha County Republicans;  Joe Rice, former county supervisor and member of North Shore Republicans Executive Committee; Nate Ristow, candidate for 13th District State Assembly; Brandon Rosner, Wisconsin Republican consultant;  Bill Savage, aide to state Rep. Don Pridemore and  officer of Menomonee Falls Taxpayers Association; Jim  Schaefer, Muskego-Norway School Board president; Josh Schimek, conservative blogger; JB Schmidt, conservative blogger; Christian Schneider, senior fellow at Wisconsin Policy Research Institute and former policy analyst for Wisconsin State Legislature; Ashley Schultz, state director of the Recall Action Fund;  Nick Schweitzer, Libertarian pundit and blogger; Tim Schwister, former State Assembly candidate; Dan Sebring, vice chairman, Milwaukee County Republicans and candidate for 4th Congressional District; Cathy Stepp, Wisconsin Natural Resources secretary and former state senator; Jeff Stone, state representative, 82nd District; Jonathan Strasburg, attorney; Dave  Swarthout, board member, 1st Congressional District Republicans; Charles Sykes, conservative talk show host for WTMJ Radio;  Steve Taylor, Milwaukee County supervisor; Jenny Toftness, executive director of the Republican Assembly Campaign Committee; Greg Torres, Jefferson County supervisor; Jim  Villa, former chief of staff to County Executive Scott Walker and Alberta Darling; current CEO of Commercial Association of REALTORS® Wisconsin; Robin Vos, state representative; 63rd District; Dan Vrakas, Waukesha County Executive; Yash Wadhwa, former State Assembly candidate; Jeff Wagner, conservative talk show host, WTMJ Radio; Tom Weatherston, candidate for 62nd Assembly District and Village of Caledonia trustee; Steve Welcenbach, head of the Menomonee Falls Taxpayers Association and Tea Party activist; Todd Welch, Wisconsin state coordinator at Campaign for Liberty; James Wigderson, conservative blogger and columnist for Waukesha Freeman; Eddie Willing, conservative columnist in Racine County and executive director of FoundersIntent.org; Chris Wright, Sturtevant village trustee and former candidate for State Assembly; Phil Ziegler, CEO of InPro Inc. and party activist.

Patch's Blue Wisconsin Survey participants are:

Kelley Albrecht, candidate for 63rd State Assembly District; Mandela Barnes, candidate for 11th State Assembly District; Ron Biendseil, vice chair for membership, Dane County Democratic Party; Tammy Bockhorst, membership secretary/membership chair, Milwaukee County Democratic Party; Randy Bryce, candidate for 62nd State Assembly District; Brian Carlson, liberal blogger; Sachin Chheda, chair, Milwaukee County Democratic Party; Jeff Christensen, chair, 5th Congressional District Democrats; Mark Conforti, chief negotiator for the Fox Point-Bayside Teachers Association; Rick Congdon, former judge and former chair, Democratic Party of Waukesha County; Deb Dassow, progressive and labor activist, and semi-retired educator; Victor Drover, liberal blogger; Dale Dulberger, party activist; Perry Duman, candidate for the 60th State Assembly District; Brett Eckstein, Democratic attorney; Waring R. Fincke, vice chair, Washington County Democratic Party; Stephanie Findley, chair, 4th Congressional District Democrats; Kelly Gallaher, founding member, Community for Change; Heather Geyer, liberal columnist; Ginny Goode, Grassroots North Shore; Darcy Gustavsson, party activist; Kristin Hansen, neighborhood team leader, Obama for America and co-host, Drinking Liberally Waukesha; Robert Hansen, co-chair of Progressive Democrats of America in Milwaukee County; John Heckenlively, secretary, 1st Congressional District Democrats; Kelly Herda, treasurer, Democratic Party of Wisconsin Women's Caucus and political consultant; Robert Heule, Region 5 Chair, Democratic Party of Milwaukee County; Peter Knudsen, legislative aide and longtime Democratic staffer; Marga Krumins, candidate for 97th State Assembly District and associate chair Democratic Party of Wisconsin Women’s Caucus; Bill Kurtz, candidate for 21st Assembly District; John Lehman, state senator, 21st District; Matthew Lowe, youth outreach director, Waukesha County Democratic Party; Fran Martin, election observer for the Democratic Party and appeared in Wangaard recall ads; Tom Michalski, Oak Creek alderman; Bridget Moen, chair, Democratic Party of Ozaukee County; Meg Moen, treasure, Democratic Party of Ozaukee County; Rick Moze, party activist; Lisa Mux liberal blogger, and co-founder and co-host of Drinking Liberally Waukesha; Thad Nation, political consultant and former aide to Gov. Jim Doyle; Larry Nelson, former Waukesha mayor, current County Board supervisor and delegate to Democratic National Convention; Jason Patzfahl, liberal blogger and founding member of the Progressive 28th Political Action Committee; Jeffrey Perzan , attorney and party activist; Colin Plese, Shorewood School Board member; John Pokrandt, candidate for 13th State Assembly District; Steven Potter, communications aide, state Democratic Party; Jason Rae, Democratic National Committee member; Aaron Robertson, party activist; Chris Rockwood, candidate for 14th State Assembly District; Kristopher Rowe, party activist; Keith Schmitz, member, State Democratic Platform Committee and founding member, Grassroots North Shore; Richard Schwalb, party activist; Erin Sievert, chairwoman, Jefferson County Democrats; Kathleen Slamka, party activist; Eilene Stevens, party activist; Mike Tate, chair , Democratic Party of Wisconsin; Melissa Ugland, business owner and party activist; Sarah Wagner, community activist for Wisconsin Jobs Now; Jamie Wall, candidate for 8th Congressional District; Jim Ward, candidate, 28th State Senate District; Jane Witt, chair of Racine County Democrats; and Graeme Zielinski, communications director, Wisconsin Democratic Party.

H.E. Pennypacker October 05, 2012 at 02:13 PM
Bernie is woefully ignorant and a bore.
Craig October 05, 2012 at 02:18 PM
True; but he can cut and paste better than all of us combined! He should try his hand at writing for Patch, of course all of his work would be plagiarism.
Craig October 06, 2012 at 05:16 AM
Wilson? Wiiillllllsssssoooooonnnnnnnnn? LMAO- must have tried that Irish wiskey and died. Hope they don't opt for creamation, the fire will last for weeks.
The Anti-Alinsky October 07, 2012 at 06:00 PM
@Michael McClusky wrote: "...Their profits will decline, especially after they realize that their customers have no money..." Most business operators are smart enough to realize they rely on the consumer and employee to make their company a profit. The few that don't close shop after a few years which makes room in the economy for others that do. And it is still up to the government to do as much as possible to stay out of the way by keeping EVERYONE'S taxes low, implementing only minimal mandates, create a positive business environment, and promote policies that lower the cost of doing business in this country.
The Anti-Alinsky October 07, 2012 at 06:04 PM
Bernie, Solyndra is a PERFECT example. Your attempt to rewrite history by denying it doesn't work.
Michael McClusky October 07, 2012 at 06:20 PM
@The Anti-Alinsky The median household income of the American people has dropped over 4,000$ in the last 3 years. It has been duly noted that American Corporations took advantage of a bad situation regardless of the consequences. I know of people who lost their jobs simply because their employer wanted cheaper labor. Economists openly say that employers could care less about their employees' 'real income." Real income refers to the actual spending power that is derived from someone's paycheck. This short-sightedness is leading us towards being a third world country.
Bernard Forand October 07, 2012 at 06:53 PM
Michael McClusky also commented on It's The Economy, Stupid: Insiders Say Fiscal Policy Is Key to Debate. Bernie replies; One of my comments is not being posted. Said to be pending? Hmmm Oh well . On your observation of the inequality of our Free Markets. Owners’ are leveraging the laborers into more dire straights. Owners’ take advantage of their liquidity to international borders. I have given this some thought and put this RUFF draft how we could return our the advantages of Free Markets to the laborers’. Equalizing of the forces or redistributing them could produce the desired results with all concerned receiving their just deserts. I call it “Turn Table Economics” Part 1 continued; Turn Table Economics. As globalization evolves the present Free Trade ideologies are in error. Resulting in an increase to inequality. Restoring a more agreeable return on laborer’s productivity could be addressed by reversing our present system. Consider how wealth is liquid to national boundaries. They can outsource their plants and technologies to areas that have more favorable benefits for themselves. When they leave a vacuum of skilled and unskilled unemployed, creating for laborer’s a suppression of wages, benefits and rights. Creating spiraling down of laborer’s rights and quality of life as the corporations gain greater inequality between the laborer and the owners. End part1 continue to page 2
Bernard Forand October 07, 2012 at 06:59 PM
Bernie replies page 2 continued Owners then seek to control the sovereignties polices to discriminate in favor of their inequality. This has been the standard from day one. Now how about we turn the table around to bring about a more equalized distribution of laborers productivity. Owners have been using laborer’s as a commodity force. Relocating as they desire, to gain greater leverage in retaining greater profits from laborers productivity. Laborer’s are for the most part, stationary to their locals. Liquidity of laborer’s movements can be motivated from stationary position. While on the other hand corporations will be fixed and obstructed of liquid movement. Corporations and their wealth are to remain within their national boundaries. All profits are to remain within the infrastructure of the host nation. Can not be outsourced to any other nation. Can not set up another corporation site beyond their host nation. Laborer’s ability to transverse borders can now have positive affects to their inequality to owners. “Compounding positive affects of outsourcing” can now be experienced by the laborers. Positive compounding effects were and are experienced by owners, through their liquidity for outsourcing. End Page 2 go to Page 3
Bernard Forand October 07, 2012 at 07:02 PM
Bernie replies; Page 3 continued Bernie replies Page 3 continued Accumulating wealth to the top that serves little nourishment to the rest of the plant… Increasing the ease for laborer’s ability to relocate coupled with fixation of the plant, produces outsourcing benefits to laborer’s. Inequality gap would diminish overtime and stabilizing, to a world globalize norm, of laborer cost in ratio to the owners profiteering. Observe the outcome of such a scenario. A Nation desires to increase their skilled laborers for some mechanical engineering. It could take a decade or two to educate the required amount of laborers or it could hire those from another nation. Retaining these laborers will require the host nation to provide security, health, education, and so on. Building up their infrastructure they can now seek to attract higher experienced skilled laborers to formulate a productive corporation . Once company is functional government subsides are to be removed. Hence forth all profits will remain within the host nation for distribution policies of the host nation… Note; should the polices not favor the owners and laborers favorably, then their infrastructure will begin to deteriorate As laborers will have the ability to relocate their services to another competing host nation. End Page 3 continued to 4
Bernard Forand October 07, 2012 at 07:04 PM
Bernie replies; Page 4 Where in as the owners may leave the corporations and seek another Host ,but the wealth of the corporation remains within the local host nation it was constructed in. Consider wealth of corporations as fruit tree. Nourishment of said tree is the responsibility of the host nation. For that, they retain the tree. Owners have greater value to the nourishment requirements, of said tree, that will produce the desired fruit and the skilled laborers are the various veins, that move the nourishment. Unskilled laborer’s would be the capillaries to feed the tributaries that feed the nourishment.. Specific trees will flourish according to the resources made available to feed the capillaries. Imports and exports determines intake of raw resources nourishment and components to increase benefits to the infrastructure of the garden. Increasing a desire for a community to remain. One restriction for host nations is that they can not interfere with the migration of owners and laborer’s. Only means to retain their Laborer’s would be dependent on the quality of life that laborers adhere to. Thus any form of sovereignty and their political ideologies for policies will continue to be to their discretions. This is the end. My only true friend the end...
Bernard Forand October 07, 2012 at 07:52 PM
Anti Bernie replies to Solynda Solyndra!. I fail to comprehend the hype that is associated to it. It was a failed investment. Get over it. How many failures have the oil , coal and nuclear energy sectors have Per Year? At what cost to taxpayers and consumers for their failures? There are always obstacles on a quest. Observe did we throw up our hands up with every oil spill, coal mine disaster or radioactive catastrophes. Now consider that damage they have and are contributing to our nations Health and Security. Toxic in their acquirements , production, storage and deliveries. Multibillions would be saved in health issues alone. Service infrastructure to a toxic energy source would be eliminated. Multibillions saved there as well. Alternative energy require no fuel! Infrastructure cost to service is a fraction of a fraction of that of a toxic infrastructures. As well as the pollution factors. At best it is naïve to focus on this one failure, when the rewards of clean abundant energy is simply here for the taking. Obama’s investment into the R&D of alternative is beginning to blossom. Alternative energy is on a acceleration curve of technology growth. Imagine 40 years ago. We were with pencil, paper and a slide ruler and today we communicate with computers. Imagine what alternative energy will be with our technology focused on its development. You already know this simple observation of the two energy sources. Toxic and non toxic. Repubs !!!!
John Wilson October 07, 2012 at 08:11 PM
The Anti-Alinsky – Interesting… 33 green energy companies received loan money from the federal government so far; 3 of these companies failed, and that includes Solyndra, because the PRC flooded the USA market with cheap solar panels… When you considered that 50% of all business startups go belly up in 2-3 years, even you may appreciate the stupidity of your statement regarding Solyndra… but, maybe not… I guess you just can't fix stupid...
The Anti-Alinsky October 08, 2012 at 01:29 AM
Bernie wrote: "...Solyndra!. I fail to comprehend the hype that is associated to it. It was a failed investment. Get over it.." No I won't get over it! It was MY money Obama gave his cronies! John, The fact that the federal government had to give Solyndra $500 million is a pretty good indication that it was not a viable business opportunity. That's where the stupidity lies. 500 MILLION. That's 5000+ teachers. That's 5000+ Police. That's 5000+ full ride scholarships. If that's not enough to P155 you off you are just too far out to listen to any sort of reason!
Annie Nominous October 08, 2012 at 02:10 AM
Michael McClusky - I think you are wasting your vote. But whatever makes you happy.
Michael McClusky October 08, 2012 at 12:00 PM
@Annie Nominous Some polls have Johnson having up to 5% of the vote in some states. In a close election this can be a crucial factor. There is dissatisfaction out there with both candidates. Both the major parties are financed by 'dark money', so we really don't know what their true agendas are.
John Wilson October 08, 2012 at 02:45 PM
The Anti-Alinsky – FYI: there is a 90B fund for alternative energy companies – less than half of that has been used so far. IF “YOU” want to stay exercised over Solyndra for the rest of your inconsequential life, that is totally up to you… YOUR frustration will only shorten YOUR life… Dear The Anti-Alinsky, that was NOT your money the government gave to his cronies; that might have been some few pennies of your taxes, but as a good American citizen, you are obligated to pay your taxes, just as you are obligated to pay your mortgage. Once you pay that money, in either case, that money belongs to the recipient… not YOU! Therefore, it is no longer YOUR MONEY! You really would not believe what your local, state and federal governments do with much of the monies collected from taxes; I wouldn’t want to be responsible for driving you into a full-fledged psychotic breakdown, so I will not give you specifics… Furthermore, they may spend it as they wish; you may contact your congressperson, complain, and receive a very, very PC letter back, stating that they are so very pleased you contacted them, and IF you have any further concerns, please contact them again… of course, the letter will be written by a staffer and they have billions of these boilerplate letters ready to send.
Bernard Forand October 08, 2012 at 03:20 PM
@ John Wilson also commented on It's The Economy, Stupid: Insiders Say Fiscal Policy Is Key to Debate. "The Anti-Alinsky – FYI: there is a 90B fund for alternative energy companies. Bernie replies; Your reply to Anti is sound advice. Thought I would drop this off to help Anti settle down. Anti should examine the source of that $90 Billion comment. It was from Romney’s debate. Need I say more? Romney’s half truths and just outright lies have the taint of Foxy Rush Rove. That $90 Billion has been judged FALSE. So Anti you can settle down now its just more lies from Romney/Ryan political propaganda. Just like your lie of government fails 50%. Tad off there. Again with your extremes.. Try counting to 3,753 before posting. Might help you with those fabricated numbers of extremes you are constantly prone to. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/05/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-barack-obama-provided-90-billion/ Now how about some fun? http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/rulings/pants-fire/ Political Facts pants on fire section. Pulitzer Prize site.
Craig October 08, 2012 at 07:19 PM
Poor Wilson. Ole John Boy Wilson, may he rest in peace.
The Anti-Alinsky October 09, 2012 at 03:57 AM
John Wilson wrote "...Dear The Anti-Alinsky, that was NOT your money the government gave to his cronies; that might have been some few pennies of your taxes, but as a good American citizen, you are obligated to pay your taxes..." Again, John is showing the Liberal mentality, we don't care where it comes from, it's OUR money, not yours. As a " good American citizen" I have a right to say where my money goes. As a " good American citizen" I have a right to know where my money goes. And, as a " good American citizen", I have a right to have my money go to something productive, not to have it given to one of Barack Hussein Obama's supporters. I have no problem with the money I pay to the government as long as it goes for something productive; roads, national defense, education. BUT WASTING MONEY LIKE WE DID WITH SOLYNDRA JUST P155ES ME OFF!
John Wilson October 09, 2012 at 03:35 PM
The Anti-Alinsky – 1) You have absolutely NO RIGHT, once you give your money to the government TO SAY WHERE IT GOES. It is NOT “YOUR” MONEY ONCE YOU GIVE IT – IT BELONGS TO THE GOVERNMENT! CONGRESS will determine how and where the money they have is allocated. 2) NO, you do not have a RIGHT TO KNOW WHERE YOUR TAX CONTRIBUTION GOES. The government will tell you, we spent 1.5T on Defense, 2.5T on Condoms, and 1.2T on Classified Programs, that you are NOT allowed to know about because you simply do not have the security clearance. This is sort of like sending your wife out with $1,000, because she wants to go shopping. She comes back with an SUV full of bags and boxes, which she immediately rushes into a spare room and locks the door. When you ask her what she bought at the mall, she just says, “Things.” That is what you are entitled to… IF you really think you have the RIGHT to more information… write your beloved congressional representative. I am sure that Senselessbrenner or Johnson would be pleased to tell you where you may put your RIGHT! 3) No, you do not have the RIGHT TO FORCE THE GOVERNMENT TO SPEND TAX MONEY ON SOMETHING "YOU" THINK IS PRODUCTIVE! There are Billions of dollars spent on aircraft, weapons, bio-tech agents, nerve-gas, etc., every year, that produce NOTHING PRODUCTIVE, except a steady stream of revenue to Defense Contractors, Senselessbrenner and Johnson make sure they get that money. WISHFUL THINKING...
Craig October 09, 2012 at 04:21 PM
Actually the Government tells us where they piss away our money. Wilson you would be wise to not pick a battle of witts with Anti-Alinski. You are an unarmed man going to battle with a man armed with facts and truth- you are guaranteed to lose yet another one.
John Wilson October 09, 2012 at 05:39 PM
Craig - Actually, informing someone that they may be totally engulfed in GOP WISHFUL THINKING and megalomania, regarding what they – WISHFUL THINKING – they think they have a [RIGHT TO] is performing a public service, NOT, as you say, picking a fight… “Actually the Government tells us where they piss away our money.” The government only tells you in broad categories… when you want to drill down into the data to see specifically how much money was spent on a specific item, they either obfuscate, hide it under a general classification or tell you it is a matter of national security. What is the budget for the CIA per year? How many CIA assets are deployed in the EU and what is the annual cost? How much money are we spending, per year, on nerve gas production and research? You cannot… Again, you have no right to say where your tax money goes; you have no right, other than in a general sense, to know how your tax money is allocated, and, you certainly have no right to impose your MAGICAL THINKING on the government by attempting to force them to use your tax money for what you might consider, PRODUCTIVE VENTURES… It is what it is… Your reading comprehension must be really low!
Craig October 09, 2012 at 05:48 PM
Wilson: I didn't claim that the Government gives us an itemized bill, but just because they don't doesn't mean they shouldn't. What you seem to forget is that it was my money- they took it and are spending it as they see fit. It is time that changed because they are doing a piss poor job. We all deserve better. Be careful getting too much into it with AntiAlinsky, last time you were involved in a battle of witts, you got castrated.
John Wilson October 09, 2012 at 08:09 PM
Craig – You and your cohort – probably the same person – The Anti-Alinsky are claiming RIGHTS that simply do not exist, EXCEPT IN YOUR MAGICAL THINKING! That is what I am addressing. IF you want to make a very different argument about what government SHOULD, WOULD COULD, that is fine. Just understand that is a very different argument from where we began! “What you seem to forget is that it was my money- they took it and are spending it as they see fit.” The operative word in your sentence is “WAS.” Yes, it “WAS YOUR MONEY”, then you gave it to "THEM", and now it is “THERE MONEY.” THERE MONEY TO SPEND AS THEY SEE FIT! That was my major FACT to YOU from the start. Perhaps we taxpayers should be able to designate our money only for SS or only for DEFENSE; however, now, we cannot do that… Congress decides how the money is spent… We live under a representative form of government, where your representative determines how tax revenue is spent… IF you want to change how tax money is spent, then you really do have to change the form of our government… Simply changing your representative is not going to change anything; it is THE SYSTEM.
Bernard Forand October 09, 2012 at 08:21 PM
John Wilson; Craig and his merry entourage of flies are so focused on those little trivialities‘. They want us to focus on old regurgitated rhetoric and or on their decaying red herrings. Anti says Let's face it Bernie, government has done more harm than good for business in America!” Can you believe such a naive statement? Next will be praising the capitalism of the USA! Daffy. They even go against their own ideologies so desperate they be to avoid the issues. Observe they want bigger government! Imagine trying to explain to every simpleton how the taxes are spent. We would need millions of physiatrists just to explain it to the Craig’s entourage alone. Lets just see one example of where the republicans are indicating they want to go. {No Surprise Here} Mittens wants to increase “spending” to the Pentagon by $ 2 Trillion. HMMM They are overly budgeted as it is! Why more. OUTSOURCING! Yes sir reee bub. Thunder on the Horizon. Soon we will be able to outsource our children to foreign soils. Once again and again and again and again and again. It’s the republican way. Increasing welfare to the military complex to harbor the children soldiers. Larger government! http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/05/barack-obama/obama-says-romney-would-spend-2-trilllion-military/ Romney will raise Pentagon budget by $2 Trillion! True. Bunch of Daffy Ducks.. “You don’t need no ticket you just get on board”
John Wilson October 09, 2012 at 10:10 PM
Brett Hyde – Good for YOU and YOUR MAGICAL THINKING! You keep questioning where your tax money is going! You keep insisting that the government spend all tax money to improve the country! You keep demanding that tax money not be wasted! Please send me a brief note when all your childish questioning, insisting and demanding is answered… in the meantime, I’m sure the government will continue to use the money you give them – freely or not – just as they have in the past… ANYWAY THEY WANT! It is what it is…
Craig October 09, 2012 at 11:53 PM
Wilson: I do not speak for Anti, I think you mistook me for him. It seems you tend to agree that we should have the right to know where the money goes. Bernard: Trivialities? Really? $16 Trillion is not trivial at all! As to the rest of your blather, I can't comment. We speak different language. I speak truth and English, you speak the radical Libby language with a twist of asshole. Seriously Bernard, you need to shorten your drivel.
Bernard Forand October 10, 2012 at 02:11 AM
Craig 6:53 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012 Bernie replies; Craig; Your trivialities is this rehash of where this taxpayers money goes is just that. BS Just as what your $16 trillion. What is it ? Some drivel you invented? Apples, oranges? Now that is what I call a lie in any language. When did god make you king? Telling others how to comment. I do not recognize your self proclaimed authority. Not by a country mile. As to your $16 trillion all I could find was this on fact checker. They call it False. A Pulitzer Awarded Site. I think their more apt to be correct then you and the rest of your flies. http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/sep/25/rick-perry/rick-perry-says-obama-has-added-16-trillion-federa/
Craig October 10, 2012 at 02:19 AM
Bernard Forhand: I mentioned $16 Trillion as the National Debt, do you dispute that number? I don't call it apples, oranges, or prunes- it is the freeking Debt of this Nation. We have surpassed our annual GDP with the debt, how can this not concern you? Four more years of Obama-nomics is certain to cause a total collapse of all entitlements, I would think this would concern you more than anything.
Bernard Forand October 10, 2012 at 02:36 AM
@ Bret … Bernie Replies Bret your callow intelligence is astounding. When you claim citizenship to any country you by implied consent are obligated to obey their laws. You can’t handle that, then seek a citizenship that suites you and see if they will accept you. No matter where you go their will be a price to pay. Even if you want to be a hermit in a cave. There you can sit and mediate. What price am I paying to live as a hermit versus living in a social structure. Let us all know when you get back from your meditations and what enlightened discoveries you have made, if they will let you back in. What’s all this BS about “GIVE and TAKE”? A simple child of 5 has advanced beyond those basics. Maturity will some day come to you. Then words like share, receive to name just a couple may yet come into your realm of comprehension.


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