"No conspiracy here, just a couple of politicians doing what they were elected to do."

I don't think Wisconsin politcians were elected to make it impossible to do business in Wisconsin, because that is what they are doing. We are better off with no changes to the law than this proposed "compromise." It is a turkey. With or without this law guarantees no iron mining in Wisconsin. We should be supporting the Assembly bill, or a VERY close cousin to it. Don't kid yourself about unrealistic study time lines. This is all about the tribes and the tree-huggers expecting to be able to sail in at any time for any reason to disrupt the permit process... in perpetuity. They deserve no such special standing. A reasonable man would argue, as you so love to put it, we all have to drink the water. Except in Shorewood, of course, when the poop comes flying into Lake Michigan after a thunderstorm. Where is your outrage in your own backyard, Lyle? Where are the Potowatomi and the Sierra Club, eh? I hear crickets chirping! That, Mr. Ruble is a conspiracy.

Their "compromise" makes mining laws more restrictive which are the most restrictive in the US already. Clearly they do not want mining but want to claim they do. I guess you can say they were elected to lie about their intentions to pretend they are supporting what voters want, but that needs to be exposed so people are not fooled and make them accountable. As for the taxes that may not be as big of issue unless combined with other poison pills.

@Bryant Divelbiss.... Your repeating word for word what Belling was saying this afternoon. You need to stop listening to him or stop tacking him seriously. I like to listen just to to what's going to be the issue of the day for the uber right wing nuts. You just proved my point.

@Steve...Will you draw it up for me? Maybe we could put both on the new Great Seal.

Here are two versions, I may get to a few more but it all depends on how the capitalist profit hungry day goes.

http://goo.gl/i0uii

http://goo.gl/luJCQ

Why not just go for the gusto and add a crossed hammer and sickle?

@JRH... I think the hammer and sickle in bight red would be appropriate. While the Republicans are in power they can place a circle and bar over it and then when the Dems come into power we return it to its pure state.

Some of the reasoning behind the Badger being selected as our state animal and appearing on the seal is due to our mining past. Please strike the Badger from your next re-draw of the flag, Steve.
Oh, I guess we need to start a contest to rename the UW-Badgers too. I'm thinking we call them the... 'Universal Beige' ;should be good with everyone, as it includes everyone and you know beige, kind of bland, but, just it cant offend.....

Remember to change the motto from "Forward" to "Backward" too, Steve.

You got it Jay

http://goo.gl/rOzqj

@Steve...You are a genius, perfect representation. I wonder where it will start showing up? I hope they give you credit for it. Can you imagine a bunch of us lefties hitting the streets with the "Great Steal of Wisconsin".

@Steve...That's great work on the seal.... did I tell you.... those 13 ingots stacked in the lower right corner of our flag represent the 13 colonies and they are composed of lead, further representing Wisconsin's very own richness of available minerals. ;)

Thanks.

Yeah. lots of mining references still on the seal. Need to keep plugging away when the capitalism profit hunger allows.

@GearHead -- You might feel a little bit differently if it were your well that shared a water table with the proposed mine. Where's the problem with taking a little extra time for assurances?

In all truth, Randy, I could make the claim that Lyle and his Shorewood neighbors pollute more water than the average iron mine, because they refuse to separate their storm and sanitary sewers. They still have an obsolete socialist-engineered system that pollutes the Milwaukee river and Lake Michigan every time it rains. The rest of the world has seen the wisdom of separating these systems. So I'd much rather drink from the proposed mine water table, than put any water on my table out of Lyle's back yard.

BTW Randy, the problem with "taking a little extra time for assurances" is that timeline is never defined, and subject to starting over at the next challenge. So business loses any interest in trying to push a string uphill. They will go elsewhere to where a more friendly business environment can be found. As it already stands, WI is the 12th worst environment for attempting to mine in the WORLD. Must we make it worse yet? The compromise law guarantees it.

@GearHead -- Have you ever driven through mining country? I have, out west and in the Appalachians. I had never seen water that color before, and I surely wouldn't want to drink it. You can't kill heavy metals by boiling the way you can with good old-fashioned sewage.

The worst of it has been outlawed -- just more of those job-killing regulations you guys hate -- but we want to make sure the mine owners intend to clean up their mess once they've taken their profits. If they're not willing to do that, or keep it clean in the first place, then yeah, let them go somewhere else.

Straw man argument, Randy. Gogebic has operations all over the place. If they had a history of making icky water, trust me, we would know about it. The media loves to fan the flames of any lefty accusation. Because there aren't any accusations we have to dig (so to speak) until we can find one, right? OK, but one year should be long enough. Even the tree-huggers need a good shower every now and then.

Randy-

You ever been to iron mines in Minnesota and Michigan?

I have.

Never seen water so clean and everyone has a nice truck and a nice house if they choose. They all live in the area and would never put up with polluted water, hunting areas devastated and no lakes to fish in.

You use every mineral personally mined out of the earth, but lie and cry about how they are taken out.

@GearHead -- The name to search when looking for instances of water pollution from mining is not 'Gogebic'. It is rather Chris Cline:

"One thing is clear from the hearing transcripts in Hillsboro: If local residents and farmers hadn’t intervened and served as watchdogs, the reckless state agency would rubber stamp virtually every demand and infraction and lawless maneuver by a coal company that has already racked up water pollution violations in the nascent stage of production. (The Deer Run Mine, in fact, owned by billionaire Appalachian coal baron Chris Cline, is overseen by CEO Dwayne Fransico, who was formerly the president of Massey Energy’s criminally convicted Aracoma Coal Company.)"
http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2011/11/29/national-disgrace-rises-in-illinois-corn-country-80-foot-coal-slurry-mountain/

We're mining coal now in Wisconsin?

Awesome, light it up lets power some Chevy Volts

Randy, I see linear thought isn't your strong suit. How did coal get into the discussion, before you veered into it, trying to distract us with a shiny lump of it? Give it up. Heavy metals? Dude, you can't make uranium from iron, any more than you can make teachers out of union thugs.

@GearHead...You are wrong about Shorewood and the combination of storm water and sanitary sewer. There are some sections of the village that the transitions are yet complete.

@GearHead...Heavy metals are already in the soil, but widely dispersed. When the mining operation occurs it concentrates the heavy metal in the tailings and the water.

Your name is prophetic. Please read the bill (AB 426) before making a fool of yourself. Then, perhaps, you can argue your point with those that know. Educate yourself before you try to educate others.

Clean water is more valuable. I thought you guys were conservative, but AB426 picks free market winners and losers, so sometimes you must have turned socialist. After all, GTac's profits will come at the destruction of the local/regional economy, which is dependent on clean water and related quality of life amenties. Your jobs will kill someone else's jobs. Your profits will steal food from the mouths of hundreds of small businesses. Mining guts the local economy once the deposit runs out, and local residents are left with the toxic results. Mercury levels are exceeding acceptable levels in newborns up north, so you'll be poisoning your neighbor's babies to get this done -- it's the science.

And you can't call Wisconsin unfriendly to business! Not so many Wisconsin businesses actually pay any taxes:
http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johnston/2011/08/26/wiping-out-wisconsin-taxes/

Fixed it for you:

We Pledge allegiance to blue fist of the progressive State of Wisconsin and to the great commonwealth for which it stands, one state under Science with liberty and justice for those we choose.

AB426 moved a lot of business costs onto the backs of the public taxpayer. I don't know when Gogebic Taconite went socialist on us, but their bill makes the state -- Wisconsin taxpayers -- pay for private sector costs of doing business.

And since the business community doesn't pay taxes in Wisconsin -- or at least, large corporations decided they weren't obligated under the law to pay any Wisconsin taxes at all, unlike the rest of us -- 'lowering' taxes that don't exist is not going to be an incentive.

MacIver's dishonesty show up here, big time: AB426 is not yet law, so the "compromise" bill cannot 'raise taxes' that do not yet exist under the Assembly bill. No taxes will be 'raised' by the compromise bill. You're just mad GTac won't get a free ride like the freeloading moochers they are. Many Wisconsin businesses and corporations paid $0 in taxes -- nothing at all. So there IS NO advantage to 'lowering' or eliminating taxes that don't even exist.

Hey, George Weyerhauser 'cut-&-run' last century when he clear-cut his holdings from one county line all the way to the other. Then he ran away to the west coast without paying his taxes -- a criminal act. That's what we're seeing here.

MacIver is a biased organization that puts out tainted warpe

Thanky. You bet right click save as you wish

That's great, Steve! Perhaps you could run some off on label stock, have somebody sell them at the next union uprising and donate the receipts to the re-election fund of your choosing.

What I really need to do:

Guy on the right needs to be a teacher, holding a recall petition and a sick note
Other guy needs to be wearing something Illinois. Illinois Alumi, UofI logo etc.
Needs to say "always voting" somewhere

The lulz is endless

What is the chemistry behind your pyrite/sulphur/arsenic claim?

MSHA needs money to survive. I know you have no first hand knowledge of any of this but a simple crack in a windshield is $600. They can write fines all day, $10 million is nothing. Doesn't hurt that MSHA is headquartered in Duluth,MN.

If you care look up what all those violations all were for. Subtract operator error death(s) and it's just operating revenue for the government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRWhZeFkyxs

Here are two that can cover your questions, cowdung.

Is one of the "independent" geologists really wearing an anti-Walker T-shirt?

@CowDung, the chemistry is not in question. When exposed to oxygen and water, sulfide-bearing ores leach a mix of heavy metals and sulfates in an acidic solution (the H+). While multiple chemical reactions occur during this process, the equation describing that process looks like this:
2FeS2(s) + 7O2(g) + 2H2O(l) = 2Fe2+(aq) + 4SO42−(aq) + 4H+(aq)

Note that the Sulfur does not have to occur with iron for this to happen. Same thing happens with other metals. In the Penokees, the S may occur in the iron deposit and/or is IIRC is in nearby ores that have to be excavated and piled nearby, creating the same poisons to the Bad River and its tributaries.

@Cynthia -- what gives you the idea I drink city water? And where do you get the 'we' stuff? I was not under the impression that you were posting from 'up north'.

James, it is important to get the information out about the lack of soil sampling in the proposed mine area--up to 20% pyrite found in one sample taken by a local geologist. GTAC certainly isn't going to share test results that show potential for toxic levels of sulfur and arsenic as a result of mining waste in areas with high levels of pyrite. As I have pointed out before, the GTAC "team" is already in place--all from out of state, and I'm surmising that they have taken all of the high-paying jobs. The 700 permanent jobs they refer to on their website are mid-level jobs in the mines, which are hazardous.

The region needs to be fully tested for pyrite presence and levels before any action is taken for the sake of the safety of the people living near and working in the mine. This is potentially too high a risk for a mere 700 mid-level jobs that will last only as long as the ore.

My point is simple. Jauch is trying to pretend he supports the mine while in reality he is trying to ensure the mine does not happen. If he believes as you he should just have the courage to state his reasons for opposing the mine. He must not believe that his constituents do not want the mine or he would not have pushed a bill claiming it would support mining. I just think the media is not repsponible if it pretends Jauch and Schultz are trying to compromise to get mining, when they are trying to pretend they support mining with a bill that is designed to stop the mine. Support the mine, don't support the mine but make them make an honest argument to the voters.

Glad I didnt vote for you for Mayor, John, with that last comment.

The issue is that they are working together to stop the mine while pretending they are trying to help mining. That is just being a typical dishonest politician. I would respect them more if they just made arguments against the mine and sold the voters on that.

When you hyper regulate the environment where we can never possibly have any mining it is time to weaken some of those regulations.

In the mean time please stop using any product made from raw materials mined out of the earth. I suspect you will have a hard time posting any more here on Patch.

Steve, regulations protect all of us from shortsighted greedy people who usually don't have to live in the mess they left behind. Regulations work just fine for those who have the character to play by the rules.

If only you would be as staunch a champion for your family, relatives, friends, and neighbours as you are for the unscrupulous.

And hyper regulation keeps any progress from happening. Which is why we don't have any mining in Wisconsin. It's safe Bren and will happen. You guys thought the sky was falling with Act 10 and now this is your new battle cry. Minnesota has this type of mining if it was so evil why do they continue it? Unless we can mine minerals on asteroids and other planets we have no other choice but to mine on this planet. Drill holes, blast, process, profit, succeed.

Yes, Steve, I believe water should be hyper-regulated...mine as well as yours and your family's. As Bren said, all we ask is they play by the rules. When your water is threatened, I will do everything in my power to protect you as well, because I am going to err on the side of optimism and say that your ignorance does not define you. Again, read the bill before you spout nonsense.

They don't even have a hole drilled and you already convict them of polluting water. You're crying wolf yet again. It's 2012 the water is fine we have processes for protecting it but also allowing a mine to exist.