It seems that is the case, as they mentioned the Southridge mall manager and how they will not be allowing the petitioners to solicit signatures there...

...it also shows that the Dems weren't organized enough to obtain permission from the mall management before announcing that they would be collecting signatures there.

They never intended on going in the Mall to circulate they always stay on public property.
@Tootlieraul there have already been 2 incidents with cameras and a big deal raised by repubs only to find that everything was legit. Not to even mention the guy from the Muskego area who had gathered 150 sigs and was not going to turn them in because he is a repub. So far looks like all the hanky panky is from the right.

There were legally placed signature collectors there over the weekend. I believe the phrase "at the mall" implies (for most of us) that the rules are being followed...

Or between you and a meal.

You really got me with that one, Keith. That was massive.

@Keith -

What's your deal man? That was so WEAK!!!

Actually that's one of Keith's better ones, JRH.

@Bob -

You're right! I should have realized that - after all, it is Keith we're talking about here. My bad!

Bob, I'm just "picturing" you as an 18th Century Bostonian, describing the Boston Tea Party patriots as "clowns."

Bren, if you don't come down soon let me know. I'll see if I can dig up a hotline of some sort for you to call.

Sorry to have confused you, Bob--some knowledge of early American history is needed to understand/appreciate my comment.

It's not the history, it's the comparison itself. The one you made certainly warranted the response it got.

As usual, enough ginned up GOP BS to fertilize Iowa.

Hey Dan Wood
Check this out by a legit news article instead of the freerepublic. Charlie S. LIES once again and so do YOU.

http://www.wisn.com/news/29828472/detail.html#.TstAO7m6I-8.twitter

Yes, I enjoy how "patriotic" and "American" these website titles are, yet when one links through, the contents are anything but.

@Bren -

Kinda makes you want to drape yourself in old glory and listen to some John Denver records all while reciting the pledge of allegiance, doesn't it?

@Phil -

Are you suggesting to force a test case to the WI Supreme Court by challenging the mall owner's express and publicly made policy against solicitation by having the Recall Walker people attempt to circulate petitions there at this time?

I hate to burst your bubble, but I don’t think our Supreme Court is going to side with the ‘public free speech is permissible on private property’ crowd.

Also, just image the can of worms that such a ruling would open up to business owners. If we started seeing regular protests, counter-protest, etc all on private property, would the state help kick in funds for the additional private security that would be required to maintain the peace and protect the innocent at such places, or would the instigators of the original cause offer it out of their own pocket?

You may have a right to speech, but it isn’t always free!

Bad idea all around Phil. Leave the decision to the individual business/land owner to decide. There’s plenty of public spaces and willing private land holders available for you guys to circulate your petitions to people.

Don’t get pushy about it, or you’ll see some backlash – guaranteed!

I was merely observing that other states have survived the "can of worms" quite well. California, where the first case was tested, has just such a law.

Wisconsin's free speech clause: "Every person may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right, and no laws shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech or of the press."

California's Free Speech Clause: "Every person may freely speak, write and publish his or her sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of this right. A law may not restrain or abridge liberty of speech or press."

They are nearly identical. California's ruling was based on this affirmative statement of the right of free speech which supersedes the rights of property owners to suppress that speech.

As for what I advocate, I *personally* believe that speech supersedes private property, but what I believe is not consequential, it's what the courts rule that matters.

@Phil -

If you want to express your opinion at the mall - wear a t-shirt that does so. You already have this right and no one is trying to suppress it!

Remember, you have the right to free speech - not the right to freely solicit where ever you want to when ever you want to.

Man, you guys are constantly playing up an “overreaching governor,” and yet, now you’re advocating for an overreach of the application of the 1st Amendment. When will it stop from you guys?

It's all moot anyway. See Jacobs v. Major, 407 N.W.2d 832 (Wis. 1987). The case was decided in favor of property and against free speech. So Wisconsin has already had a ruling on this. Just found it.

This is just the point Hoffa. So much of our public space is being privatized that free speech is being squeezed out. Unlike you, who seems to fear ideas other than your own, it would be great if more opinions got expressed by individuals, rather than this obscene scene of corporations politically buying and lying.

@Keith -

Who's the one calling the other's opinion "ginned up GOP BS" exactly? Now, tell me, who's the one that’s really afraid of free speech here?

Try again Keith - cause you just got Hoffa'd!

I think you overestimate the value of private property rights over freedom of speech. But since it is unlikely that any such case will be brought in this round of recalls, I don't think either of us will find out soon.

Phil -

You have the right to free speech - not the right to freely solicit where ever you want to when ever you want to. If you want to express your opinions and beliefs at the mall, wear a t-shirt!

Phil -

Plus, no one is stopping the recall people from leasing a store front or one those kiosk carts, are they? If you want to collect signatures at the mall from random strangers, you can pay to do it just like any other business at the mall does!

Phil, I think you overestimate the general public's tolerance for the amount of nonsense you guys are willing to put everyone through just so you can get your petitions signed.

Bob, could you be more specific? What "nonsense" are you referring to?

Well, annoying people while they're trying to do their Christmas shopping, for one.

Bob: Are you annoyed by the Salvation Army bell ringers too?

Are you comparing collecting signatures on a recall petition because your a sore loser to ringing a bell for charity, Phil?

Well then why did you ask me about the Salvation Army Bell ringers? You could have compared yourself to any other number of things one finds at the mall around Xmas time, from mall Santa's to people who spritz perfume in your face. But you chose a charity that very few people have a problem with. Either you were comparing the two efforts because you think they're on the same level in terms of worthiness, or you were just changing the subject for no reason. So which was it, Phillip?

Roberto said, "annoying people while they're trying to do their Christmas shopping"

I said, "Are you annoyed by the Salvation Army bell ringers too?"

Roberto said, "Are you comparing collecting signatures on a recall petition because your a sore loser to ringing a bell for charity, Phil?"

I said, "No, I'm comparing exercising my constitutional rights in the State of Wisconsin to recall an elected official for any reason I feel like to ringing a bell.

Roberto said, "Either you were comparing the two efforts because you think they're on the same level in terms of worthiness, or you were just changing the subject for no reason. So which was it, Phillip?"

I don't know Roberto, are you having trouble following along?

I'm not at all annoyed by Salvation Army bell ringers. I applaud them for the time they put in for a worthy cause. People like you, Phil, who've taken being a sore loser to new heights, standing outside a mall soliciting signatures because they can't stand not getting their way I, and I'm willing to bet many others, would find annoying. But that's the chance you take if you decide to do it, Phil. Or if you decide to make a stink about it because you can't.

Here's how threatened I feel by it, Phil. I encourage you to do either, since both would be pointless, but if you'd like to do both (for whatever reason) please be my guest.

You still haven't answered my question, Phil.

If enough people sign these things, this is the voters expressing buyer's remorse over the 2010. Democracy isn't frozen in time because just because you want us to cater to your whim.

We'll find out soon who exactly is irritated over what. People are paying attention more than you think.

Just promise me you won't be shy about it, Keith. Get out there and stand up for your right to be a sore loser in a grand fashion. Heck, drag out the scarecrow on a stick if you still have that lying around. Be loud and proud about it. Don't let anyone tell you you're in their way, taking up too much of their time, etc. Demand that they pay attention to you and sign your recall petition. That a deal, buddy?

Phils'Scarr- "Tell me, have you stopped beating your wife yet?" Really? This is your reply? How mature. Typical liberal response. Can't debate so drop to the lowest form of communcation and try to mock and belittle.

It is better to keep your keyboard silent and let people think you are a fool than to type it and remove all doubt.

Thank heavens Ima Hippee joined the thread. There wasn't quite enough right-wing mis-profiling and trying to tell folks what to do, so now we're in good shape. : )

All right!!! Bren made it over to this board!!!

AWESOME!!!

All we really needed here were some left-wing Koch Bros conspiracy theories to really top-off the discussion.

We can all be thankful that Bren made it over here to provide us with his/her Daily Kos brand of independent wisdom - I know I am :-)

The real truth behind that statement is...http://tinyurl.com/7y89gf8.

Maybe you are new to the area and that's understandable, but Walker pulled this smoke and mirrors act when he was county exec and left the place in ruins. Unless you have the life span of a fruit fly what Walker isn't all that wonderful, because next year we have to live with the consequences and yes, there will be consequences.

@Keith -

The link didn't work. Or is that the point – that whatever b.s. you were going to try and sell us on is completely empty of any real substance?

He left Milwaukee County in such bad shape? No. That was all those before him who left the pension mess and who did the Unions bidding. Keith, you need to understand all the facts before posting. I have not agreed with all he has done the past year but this recall is silly. A bunch of crybabies who will have to pay a little more for their health coverage-time to grow up kiddies! You will get your recall election but when your candidate is Falk or Barrett--it won't be so easy for you guys. I welcome a recall election against you goofs. All Walker has to do is show pictures of the protests that have happened in the U.S. during the past year. This will be so easy! Nice try Keith. Go get some new talking points from your union goofs.

@Marcus....Are you talking about the same Walker as everyone else? Although the Democrats he replaced were out and out crooks, he was a terrible County Executive. Everything he touched turned into a disaster. ie the county mental health facility. Also, he did nothing in the county and if would have stood for reelection we would have thrown him out on his ear.

So to summarize Marcus it's like this:

democrats before him crooks saddled county with near financial crisis due to pension scandal ******SCOTT WALKER, HORRIBLE COUNTY EXECUTIVE - THE WORST!! RUINED MILWAUKEE COUNTY!******chris abele the guy folks like lyle voted in following the walker formula almost to a "t" with no complaints from folks like lyle.

@Bob McBride...Glad your day is going better. Chris Abele is on a one year probationary period. If he fails, he'll be out on his but before this time next year. But thanks for thinking about me. At least I can admit when a crook is a crook even if they're Democrats.

So I guess that means you're willing to wait 'til the next election cycle comes around, even though he's pursuing the same policies as the guy before him who you said did a horrible job and who you now aren't willing to wait until the next election cycle to attempt to remove from his current position. Interesting.

Chris Abele is doing what he said he would do. No one wants taxes to go up, but in the reality-based world costs do change over time. Abele is still a better choice (in my opinion) than Stone aka Walker 2.0--Abele's advisors seem to be able to do math.

With that statement you make the kids look mature.

Bob, I'm going to let you handle this one!

See below.

@Rodney –

We already heard all of this crapola over on the other board, including how you wanted to “purge” us from your society – so please spare us from another round of your fascist b.s.!

Put down Mein Kampf, the Turner Diaries, or whatever it is you're reading, get off the computer, and go watch MS-NBC – Rachel Maddow’s on and you don’t want to miss her show or you won't have anything new to talk about at the coffee shop with your buds tomorrow!

Hopefully you will find a sig collector--and bring several friends to sign:-)

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Rodney, at this point, nothing Newt "I'm going to serve my wife with divorce papers while she's in the hospital recovering from cancer surgery" Gingrich could say or do would surprise me.

Well now you've done it. You've screwed up a perfectly good talking-point. :-)

Any Third Party Verification: Tv,Radio,Newspaper or at least a hotlink?

Karen - Take a good look at the 3 photos - One of them is Ms Love who claims it was her in the video. The other photos are the two girls that signed the petition.

Now look close, because Ms Love has gaps between her teeth. The girl on the left did not have gaps and she has what appears to be a gold tooth on the left side of her mouth (It really showed up on the original enlarged photos). The girl on the right's nose is way different then ms Loves. If the media would only do some honest investigating, I think they could figure out that they have been hoodwinked! Unless of course a person can grow gaps between their teeth in a matter of days! Here's the link... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=266564686724702&set=a.150409581673547.26185.100001135177531

Maybe if you dress up like Santa (unless you find that personally offensive, which wouldn't surprise me, frankly) you could tell Paul Blart that you're making a list and checking it twice when he confronts you.

@robert -

You may want to check the ordinance on loitering, as I believe you'd be in violation of that ordinance for soliciting in the lobby of the public library without first obtaining a permit from the city to do so.

JRH: No permit needed to collect signatures on public property. Sorry, nice try though.

@Phil -

So, if loitering provisions don't apply in public buildings, then that means that all the homeless can use public buildings as day shelters, correct - especially during the cold winter months!

I'm talking about inside public buildings here Phil. Unless you're there to conduct official business, then the loitering ordinances would seem to apply. If not, then I can't wait to see how the homeless respond and start occupying every public building in your town that they can find. And how would you address such a situation Phil?

And here is Hoffa peddling (once again) and conflating the homeless with signature collectors. Silly and more silly Mr. H.

"...I can't wait to see how the homeless respond and start occupying every public building in your town that they can find. And how would you address such a situation Phil?"

@robert & @Morninmist Same -

You are aware that the first amendment is limited to time, place, and manner restrictions, aren't you?

Actually, this activity would appear to violate provision 10.09(4) of the City of Greenfield Municipal Code. If the mayor is saying that he's not going to enforce the law regarding this activity, that's his choice. But how can you support a Mayor who thinks that he is above the law while claiming that you want to oust Walker for doing the same? Is that part of the infamous liberal HYPOCRISY that I keep hearing about? I think it is!

Also, if your interpretation about use of the library is correct, then I guess you wouldn't mind having neo-Nazi skin heads camping out in the lobby every day with some new peition every other day either, right?

You wanted me to bring it – well, you’ve just been Hoffa’d!

That's nice Robert - I on the other hand will be doing some productive volunteer work that doesn't cost our state money. You must be very proud of yourself, knowing that you and your buddies are costing the tax payers millions of unnecessary dollars. Oh well, many of you liberals think that money grows on trees! Please by all means keep spending money on your recall money & keep encouraging your out of state buddies to do the same.

Rodney, I've noticed that most Republicans eschew turning their nice, late model cars into rolling billboards plastered with a cacophony of carelessly applied bumper stickers. Do you liberals know that you're not only destroying the visual appeal of your vintage Chevy Spectrums when you do that, but also virtually eliminating what little trade-in value is left to your mini-Hoopties?

@Rodney -

It doesn't surprise me one bit that you know that text so well!

Sieg Heil!

Bob, you're kidding, right? For every "Coexist" bumper sticker I see 5 right-wing hum-dingers. You can tell a lot about a person by their bumper stickers.

Nope, Bren, not kidding at all.

Patriot wasn't the first word that came to mind when I read Rod's bodacious brain fart this morning. And America's got more than enough of what came to my mind first. Most of them are either kept out of harm's way or heavily medicated.

@robert -

Over on the other board, Ramirez was talking about how he'd like to "purge" conservatives from society all together. Remind you of a certain German dictator who came to prominence in the 1930's and effectively started the second World War by chance?

Are you sure you want to throw your support behind a guy whose personal philosophies apparently come from the pages of The Turner Diaries?

Think about this one carefully robert!

@robert -

What exactly are "Americs" anyway? Are all of the libs leaving and starting a new nation somewhere - say like in the jungles of northwestern Guyana?

@AWD...I see you are wrapping yourself in the flag of patriotism again. Those that wrap themselves in the flag are usually rogues, charlatans, and libertarians. Of course you do have a knack for turning a phrase. I may not agree with Rodney Ramirez or Robert Heule with all they are stating, but I wouldn't question their patriotism.

@Ramirez -

AWD's post did not suggest that at all you lying elitist fascist! You must have learned how to spin other’s remarks from a healthy dosing of Maddow every night, right?

Just like your boy Hitler – censor the opposition. Congrats on following the playbook so meticulously!

@Rodney -

Despite your vastly superior intellect, that you’ve displayed no shortage about bragging about (which is so very modest of you by-the-way) you're not going to change any of our minds, are you? And being so smart, you must realize that, correct?

So what exactly could you have meant by that comment? Hmmm… I wonder? Logic would dictate that you were using that comment in much the same fashion that you are now accusing AWD of using his comment – to incite some sort of violent response.

Give it up Rodney - you're a partisan hack and we see right thru you! Go back to the Daily Kos where they appreciate and will revel in your fascist message!

Rodney, you realize you were logrolling there with a guy who's parting shot in that thread included speculation on whether or not JRH shaved his armpits, correct?

@Bob -

I think Rodney was the recipient of a shave from Hoff-meister, and not of his pits, and is a little too embarrassed to admit it on the board.

Adds to your already super inflated ego, does it Rodney?

Translation: "So I got that goin' for me, which is nice."

@Keith -

This wreaks of desperation Keith! If everyone is so geared up to sign, then why do you even need to go to such lengths to attempt to skirt around the express anti-solicitation policies of private land holders for?

Unless of course the whole movement hasn’t been as successful thus far as the DPW is letting on!

Yes, Keith
I find that just having drivers pull over works well. I carry an extra clipboard in a loose bag that I can pull out quickly or the passenger also.

Keep up the good work.

Yep, this won't cause any problems<sarcasm>. I can just see traffic snarled up as the hippies and union knuckle draggers are flagging cars down in the middle of heavy traffic. I'm sure that will further your cause with the drivers caught behind this mess<sarcasm>.

@Rodney -

And, according to Freud, you're probably sleeping with your mother as I type this. Drop the psycho-babble Rodney, no one is buying into it. Human behavior is far too complex to attempt to compartmentalize into little theories based on behavioral patterns.

I’m going to stop mincing my words and just be direct here!

We know that this is what you really stand for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UQ1hw2bkdA

And this is what Walker stands for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeoHcB9_wss

Game over Rodney!

PERHAPS AN ACORN REP COULD BE HELPFUL AT THIS TIME I HEAR THAY GET INVOLVED IN ELECTION PROCESSES

I was waiting for the ACORN straw man to show up-yay!

Until they start demanding that online retailers provide prominent access to the downloadable version of the petition.

Oops, I probably shouldn't have mentioned that. If someone hasn't started that process yet, no doubt they will now.

@Bob McBride... Oh, and in the store, rather than 'people with clip boards', just sign the petition using the credit card machine;) The new store clerk patter...dollar for the MMAC fund,sign the recall too.....

..."and would you like to donate a dollar to the Mulligan Stew-ardship Fund? We can add that directly on to your bill and you get this cool raised fist sticker to put on your poncho to let folks know not to bug you a billion times about signing the petition!"

@robert -

So, let me get this straight. When faced with a piece of legislation they didn't like, the people waited until the next election cycle and voted in a guy that represented what a majority of them wanted and he effectively did away with that bad piece of legislation - WOW, there's a concept!

No recall necessary - go figure, right?

Thanks for proving my point robert!

Why would I freak out, robert?

Oh the humanity of it!!!! How could you????

Actually, I'm not really freaked out either :-)

Polling results may have something to do with it...

Victory or death! Victory or death! Victory or death! Victory or death!

Oh, wait. This isn't the set of 'The Last Starfighter' (1984). Damn that Robert Preston, always playing tricks on me!

I meant - Go Scott Walker Go - to at least a full term and maybe even a re-election (if he's up for it after all of the crap he's already been put through) before making a Presidential bid!

@Lyle -

"I think that most of those collecting signatures know the law and know better than to solicit signatures on private property without permission."

You still believe that after reading this board? You may want to wake up, cause you're dreaming my friend!

@JRH...If they don't know, they soon will. The Executive Committee of the Wisconsin Republican Party is setting up a center for collecting information on signature collection irregularities. They will have private investigators who will follow up and if found to be true will turn the information over to the appropriate authorities.