Way to take the lowly Nancy Pelosi name calling road on this one Bren.

Why are those of us who support the current Republican administration and legislators nothing but mere "astroturf" to you? That doesn't seem very fair of you at all, as we're just as much real people as those who initiated and participated in the recall efforts, aren't we?

Why is it that your side doesn't consider us to be real, or that our voices deserve to be heard and our agendas furthered when we constitute a majority of the sentiment in the state?

If the Koch Bros are backing us, GREAT! The more the merrier. It's not like the Dems and lefty pacs aren't taking out-of-state special interest money - you do realize that, don't you Bren?

Ya See JRH, we are astroturf because we are Republican's. And no one in their right mind could actually support lower taxes, smaller government and more freedom.

As opposed to the true grassroot support of the recall as evidenced when Julie Wells, who filed the actual recall papers, walked into the GAB flanked by Kathleen Falk and Union Bosses.

You know the distinction between "grass roots" and "astroturf." The Tea Party is an astroturf initiative bankrolled by the Koch brothers and others. That's why I said "astroturf."

A great example of "grassroots" is the Occupy movement. No corporate sponsors.

I would say the Recall Walker effort was grassroots as well. And before you disagree, how many Recall Walker ads have you seen on TV? I've seen none. That's because there isn't any money to buy ads. Because it is a grassroots movement.

@Bren -

The Tea Party is not "astroturf," as its supporters are real people that would be trumpeting the same message regardless if the Koch Bros were bankrolling them or not. It just so happens that the Koch Bros happen to agree with the Tea Party, that's all. Just like the left has the supporters and sponsors of their ideologies such as Soros, big labor, the late Jobs, Gates, Wall Street, etc.

Guess who else didn't air any commercials on TV - Celebrate Walker. So you see, the support Walker movement is just as "grass-roots" as the recall effort is by that standard, isn't it?

BTW - Wasn't it a big liberal activist group and the DPW that 'sponsored' the Recall Walker movement? I know it was! Instead of buying TV time, they instead invested their money on websites and local office rentals, remember?

And you can't honestly believe that the unions and other left-wing organizations won't be there to once again flood the state with their money once the Dems come up with viable candidates, do you?

If conservatism and Tea Party ideology wasn't as popular as it is because of the masses embracing it, do you think that Santorum, without the Koch Bros and with the smallest amount of money of all current and viable Presidential candidates, would be doing as well as he in the Republican primary race?

Be honest here Bren.

Just how much kool aid does a fister have to drink to regurgitate the same old rhetoric, 8-track tape that Bren has playing over and over in her head. It's so funny to see the loopie fisters go ballistic whenever the kock name is mentioned. It makes one believe that the union has offered consideration for each time their fisting lemmings type the name. And yet, the fisters cry about money that Walker has, but don't say a peep when they know for a fact that the union will dump millions of dollars into their chosen fister running against Walker. Hypocracy was never so obvious.

Both the Tea Party and the recall effort, regardless of their origins, have attracted big money support. Both are successful to the extent that they're having an impact on the current political atmosphere. OWS, lacking any clear direction, has not attracted similar support. It also has had a markedly smaller degree of influence. I think it could be argued that it's had virtually none of a lasting nature, other than to cloud a few issues (as big, noisy theatrical political movements are want to do in general), but that's just my opinion.

The point is that, regardless of how these movements got started, it wasn't until they attracted money (which means investing in them produced a payoff for someone) that they gained much traction.

Personally, I don't find the Tea Party, the recall movement or OWS to add much of value to the political atmosphere. If any or all of those are considered standout examples of "grassroots" efforts, so much for grassroots efforts. It's time to come back down to earth and start acting like adults again.

Bren you are right on the Koch brothers support is what is carring the criminal we have for a governor.Mr Walker is guilty as charged in the john doe investagation.We might have to wait for a court ruleing on the teabaggers bitch but it will go in our favor the courts dont rule on the side of crooked politicans.So let as you say the astroturf bunch,cry for a while and listen to the crying on wisn the likes of Weber and McKenna the paid spokepeople of Bain capital the ownwers of the station.

They are not supported by the cities and police forces that have had to deal with their deranged criminality.
NY: 10/1/2011 — Police Arrest More Than 700 Protesters on Brooklyn Bridge
Madison, WI: 10-27-2011 — Madison Occupiers Lose Permit Due to Public Masturbation
Phoenix: 10/28/2011 — Flier at Occupy Phoenix Asks, “When Should You Shoot a Cop?”
NY: 10/18/2011 — Thieves Preying on Fellow Protesters
NY: 10/9/2011 — Stinking up Wall Street: Protesters Accused of Living in Filth as Shocking Pictures Show One Demonstrator Defecating on a POLICE CAR
NY: 10/7/2011 — Occupiers Rush Police … More
Cleveland: 10/18/2011 — ‘Occupy Cleveland’ Protester Alleges She Was Raped
NY: 10/10/2011 — ‘Increasingly Debauched’: Are Sex, Drugs & Poor Sanitation Eclipsing Occupy Wall Street?
Seattle: 10/18/2011 — Man Accused of Exposing Self to Children Arrested
10/12/2011 — Iran Supports ‘Occupy Wall Street’
Portland: 10/16/2011 –#OccupyPortland Protester Desecrates Memorial To U.S. War Dead
Portland: 10/15/2011 — #OccupyPortland Protesters Sing “F*** The USA”
Chicago: 10/17/2011 — COMMUNIST LEADER Cheered at Occupy Chicago
10/15/2011 — American Nazi Party Endorses Occupy Wall Street‘s ’Courage,‘ Tells Members to Support Protests and Fight ’Judeo-Capitalist Banksters’
Boston: 10/11/2011 — Boston Police Arrest Over 100 from Occupy Boston
New York: 10/11/2011 — “You Can Have Sex with Animals.”

A great example of "grassroots" is the Occupy movement. No corporate sponsors.

That's a lie. OWS has plenty of sponsorship and support including Organizing for America (obama's fundraising)

Communist Party USA

Sources: Communist Party USA, OWS speech, The Daily Caller
American Nazi Party
Sources: Media Matters, American Nazi Party, White Honor, Sunshine State News
Ayatollah Khamenei, Supreme Leader of Iran
Sources: The Guardian, Tehran Times, CBS News
Barack Obama
Sources: ABC News, CBS News, ForexTV, NBC New York
The government of North Korea
Sources: Korean Central News Agency (North Korean state-controlled news outlet), The Marxist-Leninist, Wall Street Journal, Times of India
Louis Farrakhan, Nation of Islam
Sources: video statement (starting at 8:28), Black in America, Weasel Zippers, Philadelphia Weekly
Revolutionary Communist Party
Sources: Revolutionary Communist Party, Revolution newspaper, in-person appearance
David Duke
Sources: Talking Points Memo, video statement, davidduke.com

the signatures them selves show that the will of the people is for him to go ....no amount of money is going change that fact ....however it would be nice if they would use their money and effort to do something positive for the state

Here's proof of OWS Astroturf. This videos is of OWS protesters this week in Washington DC. ------------------------------

Protesters at Friday’s “Occupy CPAC” event, organized by AFL-CIO and the Occupy DC movement, told The Daily Caller that they were paid “sixty bucks a head” to protest outside the Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington, D.C.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/10/occupy-cpac-protesters-paid-60-for-the-day/#ixzz1m5iqd2iN

I thought ows was about getting money out of politics?!?!?!?!?

Stand together you purely motivated and intellectual men of the left!!!! Hah

Mr. Hoffa, please. Here's a New York magazine article about the Koch brothers. The Tea Party pops up around page 5. There's no use pretending that Koch money isn't behind the Tea Party, AFP, the Cato Institute, etc. http://nymag.com/news/features/67285/

Until you are a billionaire the ALEC agenda has nothing for you. Nothing.

Anti-union legislation knocks the props out of private wages and benefits and this has been observed through 30+ years of data. Why would anyone support Right to Fire legislation? In the pre-Civil War South, the argument was made that slavery did exist in the North, as what they called "wage slaves." People who made a pittance, worked ridiculous hours, and were summarily fired when they were injured or became to old or sick to work 10-12 hours+/day, six days a week. Unions were suppressed and attacked, but they successfully negotiated better working conditions and fair pay, which reverberated across the private sector. Why would anyone except a billionaire corporatist support a return to the horrific old days?

And concerning out-of-state special interest money, of course people who are equally appalled by ALEC are donating to the grassroots Recall initiative, beginning right with people in China ordering pizza for protesters in Madison last spring. But does that money compare with what the 300 corporate partners of ALEC could afford to pour into Wisconsin thanks to Citizen's United? Hm.

There is no real Tea Party, which was an astroturf movement - not that any bagger will admit to it. All the elected self-proclaimed baggers have an R next to their names.
And yes, baggers decry fair and equal treatment and are perfectly happy to have started their campaign way early, before all the petitions are validated.

Mr. (phoney) Hoffa: How appropriate for a bagger to pose as someone else. Astroturf refers to who started it, not who's in it. It's very obvious that there are plenty of suggestable and gullible people, who wish for pie in the sky, by and by.

Red: First off, I'd rather be dead than red. Secondly, by your excuses, then surely the protestors at the Democratic Convention in Chicago were also deranged criminals. By that line of excuse, it would be easy to claim the original Boston Tea Party protestors were also deranged criminals. Maybe you think the author of the US Constitution was a deranged criminal as well. Perhaps you are really possessed by a pre-Revolutionary southern loyalist. If so, see a Priest.

Red: the only thing the Daily (obscene) Caller is proof of is the existence of a bubble surrounding CONservatives. It was founded by CONservatives for CONservatives. If you consider Dick the Cheney to be fair and balanced, then the Daily (obscene) Caller is your red meat.
Another CON by a CON.

xclvet, don't ya know tea parties are for little girls with imaginary friends.

As for the historical precedent, it was organized by American merchants who were protesting monopolistic control of the tea trade by the East India company.

Today's baggers work in the opposite direction. They protest to protect corporate control.

No surprise that you can't see the difference. Lighting is quite dim in the cave you dwell in.

Mr. Hoffa, I know it is impossible to swallow the truth with a tea bag lodged in one's throat, but Walker, just like the Dick Armey funded, Koch astroturf, racist gaggle of ignorant corporatists known as the tea party, is done

The difference being, as you claim, they were denied by the GAB. So there's your fair and equal treatment that you will now fail to understand, most likely.

Oh yes, the secret gerrymandering project. And the beat goes on...

@Randy1949 -

This is currently the subject of three separate lawsuits filed over the issue you address.

As I understand it, it's the GAB's position that the new districts do not become legally effective until November of this year, so only those that live in the old/current districts could have provided a legally valid signature on a recall petition, just as only those people will be able to participate in the recall election should one be triggered. The Republicans have asserted the position that because it's the residents of the new districts that will primarily be affected by the outcome of any recall elections held, that only their signatures should count on the recall petitions. But, your side need not concern itself with these lawsuits, as the Republicans will surely lose on their arguments.

However, one of the big problems with the Wanggaard petition in particular is that several thousand signatures are from clearly out-of-district, be it under the old or new maps, hailing from places as far away as La Crosse, Wausau, Stevens Point, etc. Basically, the signatures were submitted from all across the state and not vetted very well at all by the recall committee against him, which has been unable to explain how all those invalid signatures slipped by their meticulous vetting procedures before being submitted to the GAB.

I personally saw Van Waagard signatures entered by Door County residents.

@JRH -- Thank you. Right after I wrote my post, I followed a link to an article that said the DOJ and the GAB had ruled that the old districts were to be the valid ones for petition signers. I think it's a little late for Fitzgerald & Co. to decide after the fact that it should have gone the other way, because that gave no opportunity for people in the new district areas to sign.

As for Van Wanggaard, I don't really know, so i have no feelings on the matter, other than to say that if they did knowingly submit invalid signatures, that was pretty dumb of them.

-----Oh yes, the secret gerrymandering project

you are referring to the constitutionally mandated redistricting that takes place every 10 years? Sucks to lose the election before that exercise takes place doesn't it?

Red: More BS and blather. See, if people know about it here, then it's not secret. Think first, type second.
Also your personal testimoney is as valuable as Confederate money. People can and will claim anything on the net.

Red, the "secret" component had to do with keeping the public out of the loop for as long as possible. More updates on the issue from other posters, above.

Linda: Remind us all again how many people voted for Scott Walker? I believe it was in excess of 1 million [fake votes].
So a half million signatures equates to Walkers 2 million votes using what kind of math?

Instead of nonsense rhetoric you Lefties are so enamored with, let's look at irrefutable FACTS.

Walker did exactly what he said he would do when he was running foe office.

Walker has turned all deficits to surpluses

Walker has actually increased # of teachers and not ONE job has been lost.

Tax payers in WI have seen taxes GO DOWN for the first time in memory.

Walker has HUGE war chest and when the campaign begins (if it even gets past the signature verification stage which is looking more doubtful daily), the people of WI will see these FACTS and will KNOW they are better off with a surplus and more money in their pockets then what they had under the tax and spend liberal in office before and the Congress which was and still is OWNED by the Union thugs in WI.

The reason the liberals have gotten NO ONE with any name to run against Walker is the smart politicians already KNOW they have no chance.

The loss on all fronts by the Union thugs in WI will signal the final end to their influence in the state and as is happening across America the final demise of the outdated and money grabbing Unions all across America. In 10 years they will ALL be history.

John Vamce: Thats simply untrue.

Walker himself admitted UNDER OATH that he never mentioned collective bargaining during his campaign. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9uxrZXyfzc&feature=related

"Walker has turned all deficits to surpluses" Completely false. Because of the job losses under Walker Wisconsin has a budget deficit BIGGER than the one he used to justify his, "budget repair bill." There are absolutely NO surpluses in the budget.

"Walker has actually increased # of teachers and not ONE job has been lost."

Again untrue. From the "Veterans News" website: "Eighty-two percent of the districts that responded for the DPI’s report indicated they lost personnel as opposed to last year, and nearly two thirds of the districts reported having cut teachers. What’s more, even the Kaukauna School District, which Gov. Walker and his right-wing corporate supporters have touted as a “budget repair” bill success story, is at the top of the list in losing teachers and increasing student-to-teacher ratio."

The ONLY taxes that have gone down are for are the wealthiest individuals and corporations. the average tax payers state taxes have remained the same while county and local taxes have had to increase due to the huge slash in state funding.

"Walker has a HUGE war chest." That one you are correct on. About 65% of it coming from out of state donors meddling in our affairs.

I encourage you to post your opinion but please don't call complete lies "FACTS".

-----"Walker has turned all deficits to surpluses" Completely false. Because of the job losses under Walker Wisconsin has a budget deficit BIGGER than the one he used to justify his, "budget repair bill."

It is you who are posting falsehoods. The unfortunate deficit now calculated is one hundred forty million.

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2012/02/09/projected-wisconsin-budget-deficit.html

The deficit that crook Jim Doyle left us was 3.6 billion or THREE BILLION FIVE HUNDRED MILLION more than this currently forecasted deficit.

Exactly. The procedure is very clear. Here's a taste: "State law prohibits Verify the Recall and other outside groups from filing an official challenge of recall petitions. Therefore, the GAB will not consider any of the evidence or findings from an independent review of the petitions." - from the article.
Walker followed it to become Milwaukee County Exec. and now decries it's practise when it appears likely he'll be booted out.

Craig: Us? How many personalities have you got bouncing around in there? You be much more CONvincing if you spoke for only one of them. Walker's two million votes? The election hasn't occurred yet. The recall petition produced 1.6 million signatures. Likely, a few of them will be found to be either duplicates or fraudulent. In any event, more people signed the recall petition than voted for the Koch-head.

Red: careful what slanderous remarks you put in print. You could be held for libel charges against you. In any event, loose lips are often the hallmark of a fool. It is very likely that the John Doe investigation will lead to Walker. There is nothing to convict former Governor Doyle of anything.

Can't the Motley crew answer my question?
I guess if it is an answer that discredits their looney leftist beliefs they pretend it wasn's asked.

Craig, I'll answer your question. Walker got approximately 1,129,000 votes in the 2010 election, far short of your stated 2,000,000. We have almost that number on the recall petitions. And, just in case you haven't been paying attention, since the petitions were turned in, 6 of Walker's pals have been arrested on corruption charges. Add to that the fact that since he took office, the loss of jobs in this state is at a national high, most school districts have been gutted, health benefits to children and the elderly have been cut or completely discontinued, police and fire departments are having to cut back services, and after one year in office he already has this state facing a deficit that will take years to overcome; a far larger one than any of you can blame Doyle for. So, the question begs to be asked - why would anyone with an ounce of sense vote for this guy a second time?

Linda: My 2 million was due to a libitard accounting practice- I also included those who are dead and would have voted for Walker, and those who didn't show up at the polls but could have had a vote cast in their name. :P
Schools have not been gutted. Some were hurt because their school board was in bed with the teacher's union and passed a quickie before ACT-10.
Even your LOUD and PROUD Democrats will think about casting a vote for Walker again in the privacy of the polling place. When the union hall calls them and asks them to show up at a demonstration, it is hard to say no- you know what they say, don't crap where you eat. But when the vote is cast there is no goon watching.
Anyone with an ounce of sence (not an ounce of dope) knows what is right for Wisconsin, and will vote that way if they know the goons aren't watching.
xclvet: I don't respond to assholes. 'nuff said.

Red, the Doyle deficit you talk about does not exist, because by law the budget has to be balanced, as Walker is so incompetently showing with the current revenue short fall.

Another example of the big lie at work.

LOVE THE NAME.

Does appear to be the case more times than not.

Nate, you would do well to remember that it was the republicans who demanded and wrote the law that created the GAB. Now that it's doing its job, you people don't like it. And, please, get off the tea bag train and stop the chest thumping about fake signatures, outside parties, worthless republican election tools, and "haters". The vast majority of the hate is coming from the republicans and the baggers. Democracy will work and the criminal Scott Walker will be defeated and he will go to prison, where he belongs.

Nate
I will remind you that we picked up 2 Senate seats last summer. So, word to the wise, do not be so quick to say we will lose.

Now that it's doing its job

That's comedy gold!!! Thanks for the belly laugh!!!

Hate coming from Republicans? Tell that to those who have received death threats..
Death threats made against Gov. Walker on Facebook

Capitol Police Chief Tubbs releases statement on Walker death threat
Capitol Chaos: Threats Against Public Officials Released
Teacher and Walker critic receives death threat
Walker critic won't be charged for Facebook threat
Menomonee Falls Students Punished for Facebook Threats

MADISON- Death threats made against Governor Walker on Facebook are being taken very seriously at the Captiol

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/133403213.html

A top official in the Wisconsin State Patrol ...said the increased costs were mostly because of death threats against the Republican governor and lieutenant governor and their families.

http://m.jsonline.com/more/news/politics/133496163.htm

Oh, and don't forget the walker = hitler signs

Democratic Party of Wisconsin Chairman Mike Tate is condemning signs carried by pro-labor protesters that compare Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker to Hitler, Benito Mussolini .. and showed the governor with a cross-hairs

just like giffords!

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/wis-democratic-party-condemns-hateful-signs-targeting-states-gop-governor-and-lawmakers

A "competent politician". Very funny...you should consider stand-up-comedy. And as for haters, you Teanderthals have the lock on that.

I will remind you that we picked up 2 Senate seats last summer. So, word to the wise, do not be so quick to say we will lose.

-----I will remind you that you said you would get all 6, including Alberta Darling. She exceeded her previous vote totals in the election.

I was sorry to see Hopper go, but the 25 year old girlfriend (fairly) cost him a few percent. So it was his love interest, not Democratic 'power' that defeated him.

Please educate yourself before you embarrass us all.

You are aware of the fact that the republicans invented the GAB, right? You are aware that they made up all the rules it follows, right?

And the GAB HAS NO RESPONSIBILITY TO FILTER THE NAMES! Under the rules THE REPUBLICANS wrote for the GAB it is just a referee, not a goalie.

The recalled individual (and however many hundred people he can get working for him) is the party responsible for sifting through the names. They find some that are fishy they bring them to the attention of the GAB.

The GAB then looks through all the challenged names and either throws them out for whatever reason or they verify them.

So please stop saying baseless things about thousands of fake names and whatever else.

If there are fake names the recalled party will find them and they will be thrown out. Same with names from out of district people, felons, doubles, etc.

The recalled individuals have been given PLENTY of money and time to do this PLUS the help offered by out of state 3rd parties sorting through the signatures.

So please stop running your mouth and saying things that are both baseless and inflammatory.

Its comments like that which will drive away undecided voters.

Partisan voters (right and left) like loud mouth rhetoric and will believe anything they are told as long as it plays into their beliefs.

Independents see those comments and they get grossed out by extremists and ignorant and rude people.

Red: That's an over-reach. GAB isn't designed to prevent death threats. There is no law that prevents them. There are consequences for making them. As the link you provide just might detail.
After you pick yourself up off the floor, see if you can remember what the above article is about.

501 c3s aren't allowed to collude with politicians.

You're not missing a thing.

Red: Aren't allowed to, and so you believe that they do not? Actually, from my understanding, poiticians aren't allowed to direct any superPAC, but as of yet , there is no way to keep track of any politician's every move and conversation.

Shout louder. Can't hear you. My AM radio's volume is up too high. Wait a sec, BRB.

No job losses? Where have you been for the past year, John, in Gingrich's moon colony? Walker has steadily increased the state's deficit, let his corporate donors/owners get away with not paying any taxes, and has overseen the steady loss of jobs in Wisconsin. Are you able to read anything but tea party-approved pamphlets?

If that ditz you are referring to happens to be Kathleen Falk, she did a hell of a lot better job as Dane county exec then Walker did in Milwaukee county.

I think that my dog could run against Walker if the election was tomorrow and beat him. I defiantly know that my dog is a lot smarter then Scott Walker and better looking.

Liberal math is a little more advanced than that of the "anti-education" party. Walker's support among all demographics; republicans, democrats, and independents has plummeted since he took office. Those who value education understand that Walker will not receive nearly as many votes in the recall election as he did in the last election.

BS and blather. That was then, this is now - despite your revised history there "Newt." See, recall refers to an effort to remove someone that's already in office. 1.6 million petition signatures is more than voted for him, irregardless of your claimed number.

Wow! Brilliant bit of sarcasm and irony! LOL!

I've looked at thousands on-line. I've seen obvious forgeries, people signing from other districts. The Republicans will stop massive democrat cheating with voterid.

Red: Thanks for proving that anyone can claim anything online. There has been no massive cheating except in the minds of those who want to gain the system. See? My claim counters your obvious fabrication.

Scott Walker won by a narrow margin in an off year that was marked by economic anger in conservatives and frustrated apathy in liberals. Who, among the swing voters, would not be in favor of balancing the state's budget without raising taxes? Only those who were unfamiliar with Scott Walker's performance as Milwaukee County Executive and had no idea what he really planned to do as Governor.

Now those same swing voters know what Scott Walker is all about, and his narrow margin may disappear.

Randy: Indeed. Thanks for the reminder. Nice to see a bit of accurate reality testing here.

The will of the people takes place in the polls, unless you are a looney lefty and want a do over.

@Steve -- Isn't it cheating to allow signatures to be collected under one set of rules for who lives in a district and then challenge those signatures according to the new district?

What a surprise -- Scott Fitzgerald in shocked at how many of his constituents want him gone, so he must cheat, er, reinterpret the rules to favor himself.

lol so you guys weren't smart enough to know the new districts were coming on. lol that's awesome. Thought you guys were the elitist educated types

You guys are a bunch of slime ball cheaters. Photo ID will level the playing field for those that don't want free smokes or BBQ

@Steve -- Of course we were smart enough to know about the redistricting. The issue is which would be considered valid for the purpose of signing a petition and to have that legally established before the process began. Which indeed it was. The DOJ and the GAB said it was by the old district. Now Scott Fitzgerald wants to change that after the fact? Please don't call ME the slimeball cheater.

I don't smoke, and I don't particularly like BBQ. You're lowering yourself by using arguments like that.

Any "trick" any tactic is on the table and must be used to thwart these emotional recalls. You slime ball cheaters got caught.

Bravo! But are you sick and tired enough to vote your conscience?

----the reduction of bargaining rights that have motivated many in the middle

you refer to the reduction of bargaining privileges that have been abused by Big Unions to force school districts to overpay millions of dollars to a union health care company? And the priveledges that have been abused to provide employees benefits far beyond what the taxpayers can get in the private sector?

Perspective is everything in the war of words that is politics. One man's fought for right is another's abuse. One man's budget cut is another's gutting of the education system. Far beyond? Ha! Because you say it, doesn't make it so. No proof = no fact. Even if it were so, I can see no better place to provide a living wage than to the people who educate others. It's time for the corrupted Koch-heads in Madison to take a pay cut. Walker continues to rack up deficits with hiring expensive consultants, while appearing to balance a budget that never was. Doing to Wisconsin, what he did to Milwaukee County. He's a bean counter, that seems to think he knows the price of everything, but knows the value of nothing.
Meanwhile, Walker's pledge to create jobs has turned into the highest job loss rate in the Nation.

RACINE - An investigation Thursday night into recall petition fraud after a man's name is found four times on a petition against a state senator.

TODAY'S TMJ4 talked to three people Thursday -- who say their names were forged on petitions to recall Van Wanggaard, including a woman who wonders if her son forged her name.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/138619284.html

Nate: Your words illustrate your level of emotional over-involvement, which can cloud judgement. Your contention is a straw man argument. Largely only baggers are touting the claim that their opponents claim there are no fraudulent signatures - as you illustrate. That was the point of amassing 1.6 million of them in the first place. In reality, there are mainly only baggers blathering about rampant fraud. Instances of fraud do not prove rampant fraud, no matter how many times you post about it or how many dramatic words you choose to use.
Of course, there will be people signing the petition several times, as was expected by anyone connected with the recall. As was expected by the people who originally wrote the recall provisions into law. And they installed a procedure to remedy that. (See the above article for a brief description.)
Personally, I hope they throw out all the invalid signatures. There will still be plenty left. You disagree? So?

Three people!!! OMG!! Get the disinfectant!! Call in the National Guard!!!

@vet-your indulgent use of "bagger" illustrates your "emotional over-involvement". But I've learned to expect that from the fisters. Don't let it get stuck!

@Shawn. ROFLMAO
Is there a like button??

Simply because they think they can. And, they think they still have some sort of power. Both assumptions, to those of us who are capable of rational thought, are completely and obviously wrong. But, that won't stop them. They still think they have some credibility, but all they really have is enough hatred to convince the rest of us they need to be put out of business. All the hatred on this thread is coming directly from the tea party sympathizers. And, they want to delay our electoral process simply because that's what they're being paid to do.

Actually, you can see the union masters puppet strings if you look closely at Falk.

So the pen froze because you gathered so many signatures? Usually they don't get too cold if there is someone signing often. The ten people who signed the hundred names must have gotten a laugh out of the color difference.

I track my millage on a daily basis so that I do not owe Obama too much tax revenue at the end of the year.
I switch to a ball point pen in the colder months because the ink does not freeze.

Craig, if all you have to offer is name-calling, ridicule and lame attempts to insult people, why don't you just go back to the bar and finish that bottle of booze you've beens sucking on for courage all day. No one here is interested in your juvenile attempts to defend the indefensible.

And again, lame attempts at insult. You can dish it out behind the anonymity of a computer screen, but how very typical of your ilk that you can't take it. You have been on here all day calling people names, childishly trying to insult, and someone throws it back in your face and you react as is appropriate for someone your age - what are you, 13, 14 maybe? Why don't you come back on here when you're old enough to vote...

Linda you are high.
Give me an example.
You are full of yourself and full of it.

Keep trying Craig. When you come up with something intelligent to say that has anything to do with the topic at hand, let us know. In the meantime, how about you go ask your Mom for a hug? You sound like you need it...

Proved you wrong huh?
No insults to cite?
I hug my mom often, sorry your kids must hate you.
I can't possibly understand why.

Keep trying dear. I'm quite sure you know far more about bongs and potheads than I ever will.

I hope you don't have kids Linda- for their sake.
Wonder if you would beat them too?

That's right Craig, you just keep on trying. You'll catch on eventually...

Lindaraphael: I have proved you wrong twice, do you wanna go 0-3?

You're slow, but I expect that from a child.

Craig,
I fairly certain you can stop now. I don't know how you have proved her wrong, but what you have done here is proven that the facts are far less important than trying to diminish the value of the person you are "arguing" against. Would you give it a rest already?

Some of Linda's high and mighty moral insults...

Where have you been for the past year, John, in Gingrich's moon colony?

Are you able to read anything but tea party-approved pamphlets?

get off the tea bag train

Time for Scottie to put on his big boy panties

Time for Scottie to put on his big boy panties

So much for your self-righteousness. Hyprocracy is alive and well in the leftie party.

SayWhat: If you noticed it had been an hour since I responded in kind to Linda when you called me out to put a stop to it.
1) I never called her any defamatory names as she accused me of doing.
2) I showed her that she had been posting 2 hours more than I, yet she accused me of posting day and night.(but somehoe I managed to be in a bar getting drunk too)
Oddly enough, I knew she was just the type that has to get the last word.
Ironically Shawn points out Linda's issues clearly.

Ah, Craig's mom has let him on the computer again. Like I said last night dear, why don't you come back when you're old enough to vote. Children should be seen and not heard, especially when they can neither read nor carry on an intelligent conversation. All you have accomplished is to prove the point that the tea party is full of haters and uneducated children trying (and failing) to be bullies. But thanks for the laughs...

Shawn, I have to agree with you.
High and mighty, self-righteous...and a record of being a drain on society. Run CCAP and it becomes abundantly clear why some want entitlements and no medical malpractice reform. People who want to get rich off of the backs of others often react exactly like 'it' does. Sadly, those nuisance and fabricated lawsuits do not always get dismissed, and drives up medical care costs for those of us who actually contribute to the system.

Will you also be providing links to the out of state money that the unions will dump into Falks campaign?

@shawn

If you want that info--let your own fingers do he walking and find it yourself. Stop expecting others to do things for you.

@Shawn -- It's known as paying teachers, nurses, and sanitation workers for the services they provide for us. They chose to take their compensation in the form of paid benefits rather than extra take home pay because that was actually a better deal for the taxpayer. Our Governor wanted to give them what amounts to a 5-12% pay cut? Fine, that was reasonable during the economic downturn, and the public workers agreed to that temporarily. Act 10 made it permanent.

Randy-the only entity that actually took a pay CUT was the union that no longer has forced collection of dues that were then used to buy off politicians and the people that they negotiate with. The public union workers salaries were NOT cut, they simply are being asked to make a realistic contribution to their own benefits. But, the union bosses want their puppets to make people believe that their pay was cut. Welcome to the real world. Glad you could make it!

@Shawn -- Compensation was cut. What used to be provided over and above take home pay, is now subject to a contribution out of that pay, lowering the amount the worker takes home. Less money to pay bills and buy things that would have generated sales tax for the state.

Yes, we all know what the union dues thing was about. Scott Fitzgerald admitted as much last March. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLJdijPEBJE

I'm not a union member, by the way, and never have been.

Randy i agree that it is a cut in pay. (in one way or another- it affects the amount of disposable income)
But being a realist, I know this has been the case for the private sector for years. Where was the protest when Briggs started to make employees pay 100% of the cost of health insurance? Nobody gave a damn about them, but ask a public employee to make a small contribution and it is National News.

One can also make the arguement that a tax increase is like taking a pay cut.
Forcing one to make a purchase they can not afford is a pay cut.

@Craig -- Actually, people who noticed that private sector workers were taking cuts in compensation while the pay of CEOs and the profits to stockholders increased did give a damn. The better benefits of public sector workers was an embarrassing contrast with this, for anyone who cared to look, and that's why someone made an issue of it.

Shawn-
"... the union that no longer has forced collection of dues that were then used to buy off politicians and the people that they negotiate with."
You say this as if you don't know that Walker's been bought and paid for by Americans for Prosperity, a.k.a. the Koch brothers, amongst so many other organizations.
And yes, you do need to understand that the benefits that public workers receive is part of their wage, as Randy says. Public workers, some that Randy didn't mention- firefighters, police officers, social workers - provide vital services to our communities! It's ridiculous to think that their wages (benefits) shouldn't be funded by the taxpayer. You do realize that Senator's and Congressmen's wages (benefits, including a golden healthcare plan and a pension) are funded by taxpayer dollars. And we all know that's not the only place they are getting their money. They get plenty to influence their votes.

Those union workers did take a pay cut, reasonable, agree, but the school districts still want more, it will never end.

SHAWN
STOP THE LIES. PUBLIC WORKERS EARN THEIR WAGES AND COMPENSATION.

We work for a living and pay our taxes just like other workers.

totally agree! childish name calling goes on and on. Wake up and grow up!

Let's hope not, Morninmist. I find it sad to see people in that kind of shape, it is tragic when there are kids involved. At 57 years old and three kids in school, you wonder if he'll live to see them graduate. This guy has it rough, there are many more like him that are close to being in the same spot as he is.
Imagine those who are just getting by. They get hit with a 20% pay cut. Maybe they are laid off. Or maybe they have a huge tax increase....
All of these scenarios are toxic for someone just getting by. That is the middle class in many cases.
We Americans are lucky so far. Imagine what Greece is going through. We could suffer the same fate as Greece unless things change soon. There may be NO safety net at all.
Let's hope we all can find a way to make positive changes on a Federal level.

I'm glad you bumped this thread, because I just found this: http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/politiscope/madison-politiscope-fitzgerald-campaign-submits-bizarre-inaccurate-signature-challenges/article_12a10bee-5696-11e1-8491-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz1mOwu5EVn

Yes, I saw that. And the rebuttal I posted addressed this "errors". The link I posted is for all 4 Senators

.....Perhaps most comically, the campaign challenged the veracity of a signature it determined was submitted by a man named "Timothy Sucker."

"[It] appears to be a fictiousness name, as no evidence of this individual's existence could be produced, and the slang connotations associated with his last name."

The actual petition shows the man's name is Timothy Suckow and he is a resident of Watertown.

Neither the Committee to Elect a Republican Senate nor the Fitzgerald campaign have responded to numerous messages.

This story was updated Feb. 14.

YUP--shorter version of Walker ducking out of the challenge!!

Rick Nahrstadt ‏ @madturtle65
Shorter: We got nothing. elections.wispolitics.com/2012/02/citing… #wiunion #wirecall