No, the mine won't help immediately, the whiny hippies saw to that.

Economic conditions have to improve nationally before any big gains can be seen locally.

Merlin- That was the point of Act 10, to keep public sector jobs, which has worked. Thousands of jobs were saved. RUSD saved 128 teachers. MPS stood to lose 800 teachers. Madison would have lost over a hundred and Janesville as well. These are just the teaching positions saved in 4 communities. State jobs an municipal jobs were saved as well all by asking public employees to step p to the plate and do what all other woring Americans were doing.

This is austerity economics at work. Cutting the income of a major sector of our economy has led to job loss.

And by the way, working Americans shouldn't have "to do this." Everyone should have access to affordable healthcare and a decent retirement. We should be fighting for this, not fighting among each other, which the puppeteers want.

Nuitari -

The mine will create, in reality, approximately 700 full-time permanent jobs; I will not get into all the environmental devastation it will cause.

700 jobs are totally meaningless when Walker needs 208,489, just to keep one of his promises regarding the creation of 250,000 new jobs...

Correction Johnny
164,000 new jobs to reach his GOAL of 250,000.

And the mining legislation simply streamlines the process rather than revisiting and resolving the same environmental concerns over and over and over and over and over.

Remember, ANY proposed mining has to pass the DNR, ACE and EPA.

And that 700 is a minimum, it could well be more as well as the other jobs it could create to support the mine.

People inside the mining industry say jobs would be seven years up the road on the mining plan. Much of this industry is robotic as well. Further, the equipment in not being manufactured in Wisconsin. The old mining states are realizing that it is far more cost effective and creates more jobs to recycle steel...and they are moving in that direction. Of course its more environmentally sound as well. The mining plan is Walkers big card... I don't think he has much of a hand.

Knew it wouldn't take long for the Obama haters to show up on a question about Walker. The econ. was already in the tank when Walker made his promise,but instead he decided to play rock star.
Union busting=jobs
conceal carry=jobs
smoking law=jobs
voter Id.=jobs
Defund P.P.=jobs
tort reform=jobs
None of these have anything to do with the national economy or Obama,or with jobs fro that mater!

Let's keep it real- how can ANY state thrive when national policies smother them?

Walker is in charge of more than just creating jobs as you listed. I love your rock star label. Show's that you haven't forgot what your PACs have drilled into your head, blue-fister.

He can`t believe you. Hippies, blue fisters, blah-blah. When did you get Neutered Nutjob. More badger boy Bullshit.

@ Nuit..once again.Walker made that promise when the econ.was already in the tank.
If you go back and see what all those t.party people ran on at that time.JOBS-JOBS-JOBS. now look at the agenda of all the governors that got elected at that time.and compare the others with Walker's (Kan,Mo,Fl,Mi,Penn, to name a few.) You will find there all very simmilar.

All the other states are under the same national policies, so if other states are doing better than Wisconsin, that's not Obama's fault. It's Walker's.

Other states didn't put themselves in the national spotlight for weeks as 100M pro-union, anti-business demonstrators converged on the Capitol. Nor did they attempt to run out of office a Governor many viewed as pro-business and whose slogan was "Wisconsin's Open for Business". That doesn't excuse Walker's unrealistic job growth projection, but it certainly sent the message that any business considering expansion would probably not want to do so here.

But Michigan DID attempt a recall. They just have different rules and couldn't reach the necessary number of petition signers. A state double in size compared to Wisconsin and way more diverse.

That's not the point, Ron.

We are nearly eight months past the recall, and though Walker's buddies in the WMC funded his campaign they have failed to step up and provide jobs.

It doesn't matter how much turmoil there is, if people are walking through the door and buying products, jobs will be created. If the big employers are sitting on jobs, they are only screwing their company and their share holders out of spite.

Keith, businesses can create jobs virtually anywhere now. I know businesses who've moved the bulk of their operations out of Wisconsin because of more attractive business climates elsewhere. You don't need to produce something in WI to sell it in WI. It's not a supply and demand issue when it comes to the kinds of jobs that create products or provide services not specific to WI on a geographical basis. The message you and your cohorts sent is that public employee unions and those they protect are the priority in this state. That message wasn't lost on the business community. Walker can talk up the business climate all he wants at this point, but people remember the demonstrations and the recall. If I've got a choice to locate a business somewhere thats demonstrated a long term commitment to pro business growth, or one that recently went up like a tinderbox at the prospect of its public employees making small sacrifices relative to those the private sector has made, I'm not going to locate in the latter. I'm making a long term commitment and I want to make sure I'm doing so somewhere that isn't going to do an about face at any given point in time and view me as the enemy. I don't have to choose WI. I can go elsewhere. Based on what I've seen, it would be foolish not to.

Part of strengthening thejob picture is keeping jobs at home. Hmmm...The unemployment rate in Wisconsin is far below the national average and has been the whole time Walker has been in office. Only the Dems, who have nothing else up their sleeve would criticize Walker for creating 37,000 jobs and saving thousands under Act 10.

And if you are going to hold the Governor accountable to his promise, you sure didn't hold Barry hussein Obamato his. He was going to cut the deficit in half. He was going to cut unemployment to 6% in his first term. Oh yes, but its not his fault he couldn't keep his promise is it. No, it George W. Bush, its the House Republicans, its everyone else but him.

I never heard Walker blame Walker or the Pesident for not keeping his promise, of course the verdict is still out because he is only half way through his first term and had to waste time on bogus recalls and lawsuits. You Democrats are a bunch of whining, lying hypocrites. Until you hold your own to the same standards, it is just a bunch more of the same.

Beyond stories, there is no solid evidence that businesses moved elsewhere or sat on job creation because of the recalls. Until you can come up with that (other than right wing organizations) this is just a pleasing story.

Walker never had to say anything to put a miss-placed on The President, because he has herds of unthinking followers to do that job on blogs like this.

An by unthinking, I mean lacking the reasoning ability to discern that if other places are doing well under a national economy, then fault has to lie with the state government.

Unthinking means assuming that someone like Walker who is adept at running for government yet sucks at running it as he proved when county executive can be lead Wisconsin. That's asking us to accept a lot.

@Bob McBride...I don't agree that the political turmoil drove anyone away or the threat of future political reversals. It is simply that Wisconsin doesn't have enough advantages to offer to be seriously considered for new operations. Private job growth will have to come from Wisconsinites creating new entrepreneurial home grown businesses. That is where our focus should be. The Democrats are making a grave error in attempting to make the private job creation promises the issue for 2014.

You can disagree all you want, Lyle, but having 100M take a very vocal, anti-business stance and then having a million impeach and attempt to unseat a Governor who is viewed by many in the business community as pro-business does play into the decisions of those who choose where and when to expand. I know businesses who've moved out of the state, as I say, because of WI's unfriendly (as they view it) business climate compared to that of those in other states. Reacting, en masse, as did those who opposed Walker and what he's doing, did send a message, and it was one that portrayed the state as being of a volatile, unruly nature and highly reactionary against an administration that made as it's almost singular goal, making the state more "open for business". While all that was going on, the most frequent comment I heard from folks out of state (mostly business contacts) was "What the hell is going on in WI?" And I heard it regularly.

You don't get to decide how people interpret what they see in the media or the impression created by what they see. You know as well as I do that the people who make decisions of this nature do so in order to maximize profit and minimize the potentially harmful unpredictables. We already had the first of those two concerns working against us. The state-wide temper tantrum assured we have the second working against us as well.

Robert Merlin -

Great points, but please do not give any member of the TAP any FACTS to deal with.

You must understand that they will either cry or simply double-down in their insipid WISHFUL THINKING.

The party of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY never ACCEPTS PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY...

Bob McBride -

As usual, you have no point...

Bob McBride -

"If I've got a choice to locate a business somewhere thats demonstrated a long term commitment to pro business growth, or one that recently went up like a tinderbox at the prospect of its public employees making small sacrifices relative to those the private sector has made, I'm not going to locate in the latter."

"... relative to those the private sector has made, I'm not going to locate in the latter."

What sacrifices has the PRIVATE SECTOR MADE?

Please enumerate those "sacrifices", presumably, HUGE ONES, that the private sector has made?

John,

A) You're an idiot.

B) Obviously you've been no where near the private sector in the past 6 or 7 years. Many people have had to take pay cuts, seen their insurance rates go up, have their hours cut, if not lose their jobs completely. Compared to those sacrifices, those imposed only recently on the public sector are minuscule.

C) You're an idiot. Fire up another doobie and stare at your screen saver.

Bob McBride –

Everyone in both the public and private sector has had to take a haircut – not counting upper level management – in the last 10-years. That has not been a sacrifice by the private sector, as they offshored jobs increasingly. There is nothing special and certainly no great sacrifices made by the private sector, which were not equally visited upon the public sector as well. Hence, as I stated before… you have no point, and you rarely do.

A) That is OK, as that still puts me 69 IQ points above you and your cabal.

B) “no where” is appropriately spelled nowhere; I co-manage two companies, plus function as a business consultant for lost souls, such as yourself.

C) Repetition does not work with me; however, I do understand it is a major GOP tactic: just say the same thing repeatedly and they will BELIEVE… works for religions too. I only smoke on Wednesdays and weekends, and I do not use a screensaver… my daughter uses one though, The Matrix, it really wasn’t much of a surprise to see you in it. That’s where you live…

John,

Those in the public sector haven't taken anywhere near the "haircut" those in the private sector have. Anyone who'd argue that they have, again, is - you guessed it - an idiot.

A) You've left a body of evidence here that makes any claims about IQ points (and really, when you wander into that area, you've pretty much given up on logical arguments) immaterial. You are, indeed, an idiot.

B) I can play spell check with the best of them. Again, when you're resorting to that, you're out of ammo. "Co-manage two businesses" could mean anything from sharing a couple of paper routes with some other underachiever to - well - you name it. I'm guessing whatever it is, it's a lot closer to the paper routes than anything substantial. As for being a "business consultant", that's usually the last hurrah before finally throwing in the towel and hoping SSI will carry you through until the Grim Reaper harvests your bag of bones.

C) Since we're in still in the weekend, I guess I nailed that pretty much didn't I? Go stare at your daughter's screen saver, then. If I'm not mistaken, you also claim to get your pot for free and claim to be immune from prosecution due to some connections you claim to have in law enforcement or the DA's office or some such. You're an idiot if you expect anyone to believe that crap. Which, apparently, you do. So, once again...

@ Nuitari If I recall it was Walkers ... Party's Puppets that labeled him a Rock Star.

Bob McBride ... " Other states didn't put themselves in the national spotlight " ... Remember Walker started the War ... He put the State in the national spotlight. Maybe he should have thought of all the repercussions before executing his political assignations towards the Good People of the State of Wisconsin..

No, Bucky, it all started with the Feckless 14 running away to Illinois, proceeded through the 100M Malcontent Pilgrimage to Madison to the pointless, expensive recall. You guys started all that. Claiming Walker started it is like saying you held up that Kwik-Mart at gun point because it was open.

Bob McBride -

As stated previously, TAP Repetition does not work with me; however, I do understand it is a major GOP tactic: just say the same thing repeatedly and they will BELIEVE… works for religions too...

Again, you simply have no point...

Bob McBride -

Walker did start this battle and made the great state of Wisconsin as divisive as Arizona with his "My way or the highway."

That's the history; 2014 will begin the healing...

Wilson, to use your own argument, simply repeating that I don't have a point doesn't make it so. When you can't counter the one I've made, successfully, you just insist it doesn't exist. That's the kind of denial I'd expect from a drug addled mind. I'm guessing two times a week is you being modest.

The media attention on this state didn't occur until the proud, loud public employees union crowd started acting out. Their Democratic flunkies abandoning their government jobs and fleeing across state lines, public employee malcontents upset at having to make minimal contributions to their benefits and storming the Capitol, some of them ditching work as well. That's what brought attention to this state. It wasn't that long ago. Your memory, despite the long term ingestion of THC, should still be good enough to be able to recall the sequence of events correctly.

If the state decides to change direction in 2014, so be it. That's why we have regular elections. Your side got an additional shot at it this time around and nothing changed. Continually whining about Walker at this point is, really, just more of the immature, childlike behavior that's done more damage to this state's reputation than anything Walker has done or could do.

At this point it really is unnecessary for me to point out that you're an idiot. With each successive reply you validate the charge. Keep it up.

Merlin is too quick in using the word "haters". Nuitari's post was strictly about policy, except for the epithet "hypocrite liberal sheep", which was directed not at Mr. Obama, but, presumably, his supporters.

Bob McBride –

Once again, repetition does not work with me; however, I do understand it is a major GOP tactic: just say the same thing repeatedly and they will BELIEVE…

Are you really this lonely for attention?

The proximate cause of the last 2-years of “The Walker Disaster” clearly has been his “My way or the highway” approach to governance; this has created a climate of divisiveness in this great state that makes the Israeli-Palestinian conflict look like a picnic. The zealotry of your defense of Walker can only be ascribe to the fact that alcohol has consumed what paucity of cognitive ability you once possessed, your IQ being 69 points below that of an idiot or perhaps a combination of the two. It is sad to see a human being devolve so rapidly.

Wisconsin is not going to be making any substantial economic progress, until we get people into the government who realize that JOBS are the number one priority, not ideology, not blind allegiance to any political party, reverse Robin Hood theology or worshiping at the altar of faux budgets that do not hold up to close scrutiny.

The tepid creation of 41,511 jobs – after two full years in office – should be enough for even you to begin to question your adoration of all things Walker. Perhaps not…

You're starting to bore me, John. Maybe you are better off when you're toking.

Bob McBride -

Sadly, I just strongly suspect that you were, well, born boring and pointless... I just accept you as that...

Johnny is every bit as clever as Pee Wee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-74ss5gou4

and that add to the dicussion how?
Taxes aren't what we're talking about.

Not to mention that more jobs were created under the last few months of Doyle than under the past two years of Walker.

Keith- Please document your claim. Anything coming out of your mouth is hard to believe without verification.

Merlin- Again, until you hold your guys to the same standard, quit your whining.

Brian-I do hold my people (whom ever they my be) to the same standards,if they screw up i;m on them the same.

Here you go Brian. - http://tinyurl.com/73qhpzw

Walker cut into EIC and Homestead credit for our state's poor, meaning that fewer people will be able to take the credits. The people who make a few dollars too much or receive a Social Security cost of living increase, for example, are the ones who will be paying more taxes. So if one is paying more in taxes, isn't that an increase? Here's a Politifact link that explains the credit cuts in more detail: http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/may/10/gwen-moore/rep-gwen-moore-says-gov-scott-walker-gutted-tax-cr/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2011/08/25/best-states-for-job-growth-from-michigan-to-massachusetts-to-new-york.html#slide_6
Even my home state of Michigan with a heavy-handed tea party backed governator is ranked first in job creation. Indiana is second. And please don't reference the right to work status. That JUST happened.

Ron-don't for get Michigan and Ohio benifited from the auto bail out. But you're right your gov.has pushed for jobs more than Walker.

Yes, they did. The big three are thriving and paying back the country in multiple ways. Every auto manufacturer in the world has a presence in Detroit and the suburbs. But it isn't all auto jobs. At the same time, Snyder killed a thriving movie and TV industry by cutting subsidies. And before anybody decries subsidies, enjoy your milk and cheese, not to mention relatively cheap gas and a few dozen other subsidized industries.

Clone - Delta is ready when you are.

Ron- Still whining over Act 10 I see. 6.6% unemployment is much better than te national average. Balance budget plus surplus. Saved thousands of public sector jobs. You kill me...lol

@Clone

Wow, your home state has an unemployment rate of 8.9% after Obama pumped billions into its core industries.

Hint: The nearer we get to zero unemployment, the slower things will improve. Obviously 100 billion would help us, but it went to a state that STILL presently has 8.9% unemployment. What a sucks-cess!!

Man scott, (this Patch d-bag, not the governor), you keep striking out with your jibber jabber.

Dubya started the fire. Obama just fanned the flames, and pretty successfully I'd say.

Let me know when he reaches the stated goal,then tell me how good they are.

Ron-when Obama took office the country was losing 700,000 jobs a mounth.
He stopped the bleading with none or little help from the T-Party. So just how did Obama fan the flames?

Robert - not sure if we are communicating. I am pro-Obama. He fanned the flames by continuing the stimuli that Dubya started. It was a good thing he did.

Thank you Ron..I got off track a little.

Ron- Fanned the flame? More like poured gasoline and napalm on it.

Ron Clone, exactly what stimulus did Bush 43 start? TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) and the Freddie/Fannie take over were CAUSED by Democrats refusal to listen to warnings of instability:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbIb75JdwY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC88oox9TBo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-T9Iryuwi0
And in the end TARP cost the taxpayers $34 billion.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/293408/real-cost-tarp-veronique-de-rugy#

The STIMULUS (ARRA-American Recovery and Reinvestment Act) was not enacted until 2009, so it is wholly owned by B.O. and the Democrat controlled congress.

@A-A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Stimulus_Act_of_2008 - remember the $600 rebates?

$152 billion of stimulus.

You mean the one where they gave everyone a TAX CUT, rather than simply handing out money to companies like Solyndra, A123, Abound Solar, Nevada Geothermal Power and Fisker Automotive, among others.

Talk about the merits and demerits of each if you like, but you had claimed that there was no stimulus until Obama, which is not the case.

If your beef is "tax cuts" != "stimulus", it would seem that the name of the bill that Bush pushed and saw passed would disagree with you.

Now Keith is using Johnny's fuzzy math.
To date, almost two years after Scott Walker took the reins as Governor, Wisconsin has gained 86,000 jobs. That's an average of 3583, which, if that were held steady, would accomplish 250,000 GOAL in a little under 6 years. Of course, the engine seems to be picking up speed since we had 4,500 jobs created in December.

Now compare that to the 121,000 jobs LOST under Diamond Jim Doyle and we are way ahead of the game!!!

Like Johnny, Keith doesn't let the facts get in the way of a good spin.

Keith Schmitz -

Stop it, just stop it!

Those clowns in the clown car just "Can't handle the TRUTH!"

John Wilson:

We've Given All You People Need To Know

Most of those jobs under Doyle were lost during a period when every other state was losing jobs during the Bush recession. Wisconsin was on its way to gaining jobs up until the time Wisconsin voters decided to shoot itself in the foot by putting Walker and the Brothers Grimm in charge.

I would "say" that by 2015, to have met his promise, Scott Walker would have to add 250,000 family-sustaining jobs with benefits to the number of jobs in Wisconsin on the day he was inaugurated. So if jobs were lost, new jobs wouldn't count until that baseline job number was regained. As I recall, he tried to take credit for jobs early in 2011 that were actually the result of efforts of the Doyle administration. So we also have to factor that in to only consider what Walker has done to promote business in the state.

The guy set this metric and it (in good part at least) got him elected. So it's reasonable and appropriate to hold him accountable to the standard he set. That's why most folks a) set reasonable goals and b) avoid specific numbers and instead promise growth and improvements. Let's see how he frames his election campaign if he's nowhere near his numbers. He'll blame Democrats, no doubt. But it's like my first grade teacher said, "When you point a finger at someone, three more point right back at you."

"But it's like my first grade teacher said, "When you point a finger at someone, three more point right back at you.""

Let's see you apply that to Obama his his constant blaming of the Bush administration...

Fran- No one supports wind energy when they have to pay for it. Solar? Not working either. And those loely three story windmills sure look pretty in our beautiful landscape. I think that the majority of us who voted for Walker twice (more the second time) could care less if it was is idea, ALEC's or the Koch Bros. It's working.

I seem to remember a failed recall effort that contradicts your side's opinion.

You see what's really neat about the recall is that the margin of people that put Walker in office didn't vote for Walker but voted against the recall, thanks to the cluelessness of the Journal and the Barrett's campaign inability in educating Wisconsin voters on why the recall is our right.

You won't have that advantage in 2014, plus Walker's failure to deliver on his promise. By then, voters will not by the nonsense that the recall turned off businesses and realize it is Walker's anti-education, anti-innovation policies that are driving our business.

Keith: what I found curious about the recall election exit poll (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/06/05/us/politics/wisconsin-recall-exit-polls.html) was that just 34% said that they voted for Barrett in 2010 - that is to say, of the 2,516,065 voters in that election (http://gab.wi.gov/sites/default/files/Statewide%20Percentage%20Results_6.5.12%20Recall%20Election_PRE%20SEN21%20RECOUNT.pdf) just 850,000 were Barrett voters returning from 2010 to vote again (whether for him or not). However, Barrett received just over 1 million votes in 2010 (http://gab.wi.gov/sites/default/files/percent%20results%20post%20recount_120710.pdf).

In other words, there were perhaps 150,000 Barrett voters from 2010 (i.e. the disastrous-for-Dems midterm, so usually pretty reliable Dem voters) who sat out the recall. This was - within the margin of error - the entire difference in vote count between the main candidates.

If the 6% of 34% (another 50,000) who voted for Barrett in 2010 and Walker in 2012 were actively voting against the concept of recall (a big if: drift from one party/candidate to and from the other between elections happens), then that would imply that Walker only won through votes and non-votes against the recall, and should therefore be very nervous about his chances in 2014.

We can't afford a second term of Walker eating away at our infrastructure to appeal to his rich backers.

http://rackjite.com/graphics/turdblossom.gif

Keith- Put the bottle down and walk away from the computer. You obviously know nothing of which you speak...

Bottom Line -

The problem with Walker and the entire TAP is really very simple: they HATE GOVERNMENT and that is why they do so poorly at GOVERNANCE!

Wow are you out of touch...

Brian-if he's out of touch,where are all the jobs? Why after two years of Walker aren't the job creators flocking to Wisconsin?

There are 38,000 jobs currently listed on the job center site. The problem is finding qualified employees. Businesses are doing more with less due to the major liability associated with bringing on a new employee.

Brian Dey -

Says the clown who just returned from Newt's Moon Colony...

Really Johnny. "returned from Newt's Moon Colony" is the best you can do.

You STILL have nothing. No substance, no insight, NOTHING!!!

Matt Heltsley ... Hatred, incompetence, ignorance and having criminals including himself while employed in office are probably Walkers best attributes.

AWD ...if he had reached his promise you would applaud him and extend all credit to him. As he failed so markedly to do so, you blame "radical progressives," for his impotence. Spoken as a fundamentalist. Very irrational. What is he responsible for?

The only one that should be wearing orange should be Walkie ... I think he would LQQK great in an orange prison suit.

What is the definition of "new job"? Is it every time a person is hired?
Obama worshippers point out the difference between "raising taxes" and " raising tax rates" on the middle class. If I would get hired, I would call it a "new job".

The Anti-Alinsky -

Anti, Anti, Anti, I just smacked you down on this YESTERDAY... Need more?

Walker’s words Will "get government out of the way of employers ... who will then help Wisconsin create 250,000 jobs by 2015, and as we create those new jobs, we will be able to add 10,000 new businesses.”

Walker PROMISED! You know, the TAP guy who talks PERSONAL RESPONSIBLITY and accepts no PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!

The guy who HATES GOVERNMENT but wants to GOVERN!

Besides, Walker is ONE & OUT!

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/promises/walk-o-meter/promise/526/create-250000-new-jobs/

I think the 250k jobs were neither a goal nor a promise. I think this is simple propaganda... Say what you need to to get elected. He had a bigger number than his competitor. He came up with an outrageous number and his followers bought it hook line and sinker.

Bingo! When Brian Dey results to insults, a nerve has been touched and he is out of ammo.

Thanks for making my day, Dey.

Walker ran on the 250,000 jobs figure. He nailed himself to that cross.

John Wilson wrote: "Anti, Anti, Anti, I just smacked you down on this YESTERDAY... Need more..."

Seriously Johnny! I made a faux pas in transposing the number: 4,800 instead of 4,500 (which is a net difference of 14,400 jobs), while I corrected you when you made an full out attempt at misrepresenting number. Let me summarize your errors:
1) 250,000 minus 86,000 = 164,000 NOT the 245,500 that you initially tried to claim to get to Governor Walker's GOAL!!!
2) 250,000 minus 86,000 still equals 164,000 NOT the 212,489 you tried to claim later.
3) 250,000 minus 86,000 still equals 164,000 NOT the 208,489 you now try to claim below.

At least your numbers are moving in the right direction. By my calculations, three more posts will get you there.

And we are still better off than the 121,000 jobs LOST under Diamond Jim Doyle!!!

My taxes are not any lower, I don't see less regulations, Walker stared more lawsuites that will cost the tax payers more money and i don't see #'s 4,5, 6, and we are 42 in jobs.

And here's where this is all on the GOP. If they weren't a bunch of sweaty jerks, they would have eased in their "reforms." Of course people are going to be pissed off when you lower the boom all at once.

What was their hurry? On top of that, the programs aren't working.

@A-A: seems you need a bit of a jobs numbers education.

Your 86,000 figure is from Walker's claim of "just under 100,000". Politifact already has this rated as pants-on-fire lying (see http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/dec/16/scott-walker/gov-scott-walker-says-wisconsin-has-created-almost/).

The meat of the matter is this: comparing December and June seasonally unadjusted figures is a good way of counting summer jobs towards your total. The meat of the PF article:

"The QCEW data published by DWD, and maintained by the BLS (U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics), is not seasonally adjusted. The seasonal pattern overwhelms any trend, so a direct comparison between December 2010 and March 2012 is not valid. The only valid comparison between December 2010 and March 2012 would be with data that is seasonally adjusted."

In fact if you look at the magnitude of the seasonal adjustments to CES data, you see that the difference between the December and June adjustments is about 50,000. That's how much the 86,000 figure (86,492 to be precise, December 2010 - June 2012) is being inflated by. That's 50,000 jobs which will disappear by the time December rolls around in the QCEW figures because, well, they are seasonal and they're expected to go away. They are not permanent jobs by any measure, but you are trying to pretend that they are when you go for the 86,000 figure.

Governor Walker and his acolytes will be disappointed and confused when 50,000 jobs disappear from the QCEW numbers when December 2012 data becomes available. But it won't be a surprise to anyone who's looked closely at the data. I'll even give you a tip in advance: about 15,000 of them will disappear when the September data come in in 2-3 months' time.

...And drive the state into the economic hole by reducing aggregate purchasing power.

Watching those great union members in the NFL right now?

Richard Head ... and are you going to picking cotton ?

Richard Head -

Those are all on Walker’s agenda for 2013 already.

Bill Mack -

Dale Schultz did not stonewall the mining bill; he was the deciding vote against it. He is also the only "independent thinker" in the entire Republican Party in Wisconsin. If the GOP had about 150 million more like him, it could actually be a party that might garner some respect from Americans.

So we should live in huts and eat tree bark? The hippie dream. The irony is that you are using a computer made of plastics and poisons, and that uses fossil fuel generated electricity.

Sorry Frances, but the Conservative believe is that a rising tide lifts all boats, except the ones that are tied in place by the government.

It was Liberal policies that led to the housing bubble and subsequent burst. In their misguided effort to bring their "equality" to the masses, they did massive harm to the middle class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbIb75JdwY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC88oox9TBo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-T9Iryuwi0

Anti, if you wants us to go to those links better intro them see we make sure that it doesn't work out to five minutes of our lives we won't get back.

It was 100 jobs dummy ! It wasn't our Great Prez that lost those jobs it was a CEO from Cali.

The GOP creates the debt. Drag out the charts. Democrats have to always clean up the mess.

The wars would have been over long ago if the Dems ( screaming and kicking) didnt file all sorts of law suits and then have them put on hold by Dane county Judges who don't judge on merit but party affiliation.

Johnny's Fuzzy math again.

164,000 to reach his GOAL of 250,000.

The promises were to create an ENVIRONMENT to gain 250,000 jobs and 10,000 new businesses. And your side's little hissy fit with the recall distraction didn't help. In fact it hurt.

Johnny Boy wilson- Is Walker's term up yet? Has he not created any new jobs? Still has two years to go plus the thousands of public worker jobs he saved with Act 10. The attacking the unions as you liberal pukes like tocalli it saved thousands of jobs. And yu leftie pukes still hven't said what you would have done; even though we always know it goes to taxing the rich. What a fool you are on your liberal koolaid.

@A-A: I was wondering where your '164,000 left to go' (i.e 86,000 so far) came from; correct me if I'm wrong, but is that from the difference between the QCEW numbers of December 2010 and June 2012?

The ones that are not seasonally adjusted and therefore include credit for summer jobs?

KHD ... Von Walker started the War ... these are only battles.

The Anti-Alinsky –

You are the 2nd most mathematically challenged and intellectually dishonest TAP sycophant on this blog.

You took the employment numbers, reported in the MJS, specifically, 4,500 jobs for the month of December and changed them to 4,800. You then, spuriously, multiplied 4,800 by 48-Months! You subsequently stated that Walker would create 230,400 by the end of his term and would “catch up” on the missing 19,400… somehow. You call that a “faux pas.” I call it illogical, mathematically challenged and intellectually dishonest. [FUZZY MATH, MUCH?]

I’ve reported the FACTS and a link to the FACTS; you simply CLAIM you are RIGHT, without any supporting data whatsoever.

For the last time:

1) Walker PROMISED to create 250,000 new jobs by January 1, 2015.
2) Walker PROMISED to create 10,000 new businesses by January 1, 2015.

2011: 27,811 jobs created in Wisconsin.
2012: 13,700 jobs created in Wisconsin.
41,511 jobs created in Wisconsin under Walker’s administration in 2-years!

We are short 208,489 JOBS for Walker to fulfill his PROMISE by January 1, 2015.

He will also have to account for the 10,000 new businesses, he PROMISED to create.

Here is the link to support my data:

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/promises/walk-o-meter/promise/526/create-250000-new-jobs/

Whenever you pull you head out of your derriere, the bloggers on the Patch may see where your data originated…

John Wilson wrote: “You are the 2nd most mathematically challenged and intellectually dishonest TAP sycophant on this blog.”

I guess that would make you the #1 “most mathematically challenged and intellectually dishonest sycophant on this blog.”

Lets take a step back in time and look at the original post shall we?

The Blog: http://muskego.patch.com/articles/collective-bargaining-law-ruled-constitutional-in-federal-court

You wrote: “4,500 private sector jobs in December - lets party - only 245,500 to go!”

What does that imply? That Governor Walker’ business reforms only create those 4,500 jobs.

I responded: “Johnny and his fuzzy math again. Lets see 4,800 jobs per month times 48 months of Governor Walker's FIRST term = 230,400. A little shy, but the state economy is like a train engine, it has to get a little traction before it gets rolling.
Anyway you look at it, it still beat the 121,000 jobs LOST under Diamond Jim Doyle”

Illustrating the purposely fallacious statement and stupid statement you made. Of course, mine was alot closer to the truth, even with my mistake of using the wrong numbers.

And to top it off, your numbers kept changing. First the 4,500, then 37,511, and finally 41,511.

Remember last June when you Libs were so hell-bent on the wrong numbers? For now, I will stick with Governor Walker’s number of 86,000. We will know for sure when the true jobs numbers come out.

As to this so called “promise”, lets look at the original text:
"…get government out of the way of employers ... who will then help Wisconsin create 250,000 jobs by 2015, and as we create those new jobs, we will be able to add 10,000 new businesses.”
The PROMISE was to get government out of the way so new jobs and new businesses would be created. A bold GOAL of 250,000, especially when you consider you Liberals have been fighting him every step of the way, first with Act 10, then the recall, then the mining legislation.

The state is slowly making progress, but we are finally, after 8 years of Diamond Jim Doyle, we are picking up steam as we head in the right direction!!!

"I will develop strategies for creating 250,000 new jobs and 10,000 new businesses by 2015" - Scott Walker promise on his campaign site in the runup to the 2010 election.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100918125050/http://www.scottwalker.org/issues/jobs

The Anti-Alinsky –

Indeed, now that we are headed in the RIGHT DIRECTION:

Job creation in 2011… 27,811

Job creation in 2012… 13,700

Yes, I see what you mean now…

Your futile attempt(s) to parse and parse and parse Walker’s PROMISE to “create 250,000 new jobs” and “10,000 new businesses” into just about anything else, except a PROMISE – which, incidentally, he has repeated many times during the last two years – is truly worthy of a “Slick Willy Award!”

“That would depend on what the meaning of is, is…”

no parsing Johnny.

The promise: create an environment to create jobs and attract new business.

The GOAL: 250,000 new jobs and 10,000 new businesses.

Regardless of the outcome, we are headed in the right direction.

@A-A: I have quoted and linked where Walker made his unambiguous 250,000 jobs promise three posts back. That wasn't couched with "goal" language even if his SotS address was.

"Regardless of the outcome, we are headed in the right direction." - well, if you mean "better than zero, but falling way behind our peers when we were near the head of the pack before" is something to shout about then sure, we're headed in the right direction. Frankly, Wisconsin can do - and has done - a lot better.

On top of that the books have been cooked by Walker's Department of Workfarce Development.

Harleys union rulers are responsible for their own demise they have a additude problem at harleys plants that is fueled by a wortless condition that is not condusive to productivity called seniority the same thing that made the state workers become wortless and nonproductive there are parasites in all walks of life. some of the most disappointed people are the ones that are finaly getting paid what their worth!

No David, he just worked against one or two particularly bad ideas. Other than those, he has spent all that was available on infrastructure.

Sadly, Obama spent less than 4% of the stimulus money on infrastructure.

Republicans are creating an atmosphere alright, and we can smell it way over here

Keif wouldn't know what a job smelled like if it was sitting on his red swollen nose.

Wow. Another winger detonated. Gotta put that one on the scoreboard.

If you have a look at the last Wisconsin Economic Outlook available before the November 2010 election (http://www.revenue.wi.gov/ra/econ/2010/q2/fullrpt.pdf), it projected 164,000 more private sector jobs from 2010-13; scaling this to four years gives about 220,000.

The expectation was then that during Walker's first term, he'd merely have to: (a) not do anything radical to upset the economic applecart; and (b) present novel ways of attracting about 30,000 new jobs in order to keep the promise.

So in the 2010 campaign a promise of 250,000 seemed eminently keepable. However, it was reduced to a bad joke in the recall campaign and again now in Walker's State of the State address.

Wisconsin hates Wisconsin !

Tbone -

It is comforting to read a well-reasoned, thoughtful and honest opinion on this blog.

Walker was never about Wisconsin, only about positioning himself high among the other dead heads who want the ultimate power of the presidency.

david, hahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahaa, you are such a fool, luv reading some of this stuff

KHD- (Referring to David T.) See what a college degree gets you? hahahahaha That is pure genius David T.

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/01/15/national-health-care-forces-aurora.html

@ Bob M --- nice link to Aurora Health Care saying they will lose $13 M from Fed Govt and my have to cut jobs --- here is another perspective on Aurora..

From 2010
MILWAUKEE -- (MCT) Donald Nestor, considered a key architect in Aurora Health Care's aggressive expansion over more than two decades, was paid $8.2 million in salary, bonus and other compensation after his retirement as chief operating officer in January 2009, according to the nonprofit health care system's newly filed tax return.

The timing of the filing is certain to be awkward for Aurora: It comes a few weeks after the health care system announced that it planned to eliminate 175 jobs by the end of this year to control costs.

Nick Turkal, CEO of Aurora Health Care: $2,020,814 in 2009 (last year I could find numbers for him) --- he is CEO of a non profit yet in that year he made more than almost all CEO's of for-profits in WI !!!

Maybe if Aurora is going to get hard with less money from the FED and will have to lay off folks, maybe Turkal could cut his comp back to say about a $1 million -- or maybe NOT !!

@David

Yet another flaming non sequitur. Obamacare is bad for Arora, regardless of what anyone makes. Perhaps they overspent on office supplies too, but that doesn't make Obama's promise that healthcare costs would drop $2,500 per person, when in fact it has gone up $3,000 (a miss of $5,500). Nor does it help Arora, which supposedly was going to benefit, according to Obama.

Your tactic of changing the subject only works with your own kind. The rest of us want to focus.

Failed businessman David Tatorowicz is the last person on the planet to opine on job creation or anything to do with running a profitable business.

Grab the net. Bam Bam is here.

Hey Joe- Where do you think these new jobs are going to come from? Duh...I guess if they are new, they would have to come from out of state. You liberals are pure morons.

Brian Dey ... With people like you living here in Wisconsin , who in the hell would ever come to this state . You are the perfect example of why no one's coming here.

Bucky- Maybe you should be the new spokesperson for the Democratic Party. Then we can be in power forever.

Brian Dey -

"Then we can be in power forever.'

Sure, you lost the last five out of six Presidental Elections... that is real POWER...

John Wilson- Really? Since 1980, we have had a Republican President 20 of the last 32 years. Even going out to 2016, there will have been a Republican President 20 of the last 36 years. And in the last 25 years in Wisconsin, Republicans have held the Governorship for 17 of those years.

Brian Dey –

I do believe I stated that you folks “lost the last five out of six Presidential Elections…”

(D) William Jefferson Clinton - won TWO Presidential Elections

(R) George Walker Bush – AWARDED the first Presidential Election by the Supreme Court - NOT WON {Gore won the popular vote too]

(R) George Walker Bush – won ONE Presidential Election

(D) Barack Hussein Obama – won TWO Presidential Elections

Therefore: Out of the LAST SIX PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS:

FOUR were won outright by Democrats
ONE was AWARDED TO A REPUBLICAN by the SUPREME COURT – NOT WON!
ONE was won by a Republican

That looks like 16-years to 8-years...

It really must be cold out there; get comfortable with it, as you will not see the White House – other than in a picture, on TV, or a visit to DC.

John Wilson wrote: "I do believe I stated that you folks “lost the last five out of six Presidential Elections…”

Which explains why we are in so much economic trouble right now!

The Governor is putting Wisconsin on the map, he's not vacationing in Spain and then giving away no-bid contracts for choo choos.

Choo-choos? You five years old Greg?

Just fishin' for idiots and I got one.

No, you hooked yourself in the eye.

Greg -

"Walker is putting Wisconsin on the map..."

Yes, no one in the world ever seen a map with Wisconsin on it until Walker came down from Newt's Moon Colony... he has also made Wisconsin about as popular as AIDS, HERPES and bin Laden...

John, You are such an angry little man, you are the poster child for the Government Union temper tantrum.

robert heule -

There is no guarantee of anything except change and death - taxes can be and are avoided by our great capitalistic corporations all the time... given the state of the mining industry and current profit margins with these practices, it does seem like the most likely prospect.

The problem with right wingers is that they have an inability to see past the next two seconds. Maybe it's because they believe in the rapture hoax.

Nevertheless, tourism is a major industry here in Wisconsin. In fact it is also a major source of state revenue since tourists don't vote. Mining has the potential threat to foul the land and water that attract these people to come here.

If this is done, it better be done right, or one industry will ruin another.

"The problem with right wingers is that they have an inability to see past the next two seconds. Maybe it's because they believe in the rapture hoax."

Still claiming to be staying out of the mud Keith?

On the head Frances. The widening equality gap is going to kill the middle class and democracy. Unless someone has a better idea, the only things that are going to get us out of the economic doldrums are unions to pull massive numbers of people out of the working poor, increased government spending and massive tax increases on the wealthy to stop money from going to overseas accounts.

@Keith and Frances
Please point to a country with a narrower equality gap, a booming economy and no debt issues. Then besides your theory of the rich stealing from the poor, I would like evidence that when the middle class is GIVEN, via redistribution, more wealth (taken from the rich) our nation will be better.

@Frances Martin... Just a fact, not a theory, better to face it rather than quibble: Sallie May did not fuel the housing bubble;Sallie May is AkA the Student Loan Marketing Association.

Fannie Mae and Freedie Mac (the Government-Sponsored Enterprises or “GSEs”) were directly responsible(read:wrote the lending standards and bought the loans) for about 60% of all mortgages in 2007. The 10 year average was about 50%. That sounds like more than a small part of the housing bubble.

And Fran- The deregulation was done under the Clinton Administration as another social program to give opportunity to those that couldn't normally obtain a mortgage, to get a mortgage. See, social programs do not work. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were unwriting loans whether people had the ability to pay them back or not. then under the new standard, people were refinancing at 125% of loan value to buy more they couldn't afford. I know, let's just get those evil rich people to bail them out.

Regardless of your opinion of the recalls or those who signed up for it (literally!), the fact remains that Walker clearly did not consider it a drag on his 250,000 jobs promise, since he repeated it many times during the recall election campaign, and again in his State of the State speech this week.

So clearly Walker does not consider the recalls to have been a factor in Wisconsin's job situation. Why, then, do you?

@Geoff

On the contrary, Walker stated on almost a daily basis last year that the recall created an uncertainty that affected hiring negatively. He continued to keep the same goal, however.

Like Obama, Walker believed that past metrics were a clear indication of what would happen in the future. Like Obama, he was too optimistic. Like Obama, he will be once again elected to office.

That's true, my statement was perhaps an oversimplification, but my point stands.

During the recall campaign Walker said "There is a tremendous enthusiasm built up for additional jobs [...] I think you're going to see a tremendous takeoff." (http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/05/14/politics/scott-walker-new-jobs-numbers)

Taken together with his repeats of his promise, clearly he considered the recalls to have postponed job creation leaving such job creation demand pent up and to be released post-election, not eliminated or even reduced; that the impact of recalls was therefore merely transient. Especially in repeating it in the State of the State Address - more than seven months after the election - he can't go back and claim that the recalls had any effect on the Wisconsin jobs situation at the end of his term.

I'm curious as to why Steve disagrees with what Walker himself has made quite clear.

How do I disagree? The anti business blue fisting party was defeated. A capitalist pro business champion was reelected. We can now continue creating jobs and job creators will want to come or expand in Wisconsin, especially since the pro union socialists are completely out of power.

We beat back the cancer that is liberalism in this state, but it is in full force in the federal government.

Geoff,

No doubt. During the spring the Manpower Survey came out, indicating that Wisconsin would have the portion of the country with the most robust job growth. In addition, there was a negative correlation between Obama's approval rating (which was low) and employer confidence that they would hire (which was high). Eventually the two factors reversed.

But as I said, it will have no more affect on Walker than it did on Obama. A recent poll suggests I am correct, by 55% approval for Walker.

Steve: in your original post you suggested that it was a choice between either the recall or jobs, but an agreement with Walker's position that the recall did not affect the outlook for the end of 2014 is in conflict with this.

Luke: yes, incumbency is a powerful thing. It is, however, a bit early to wave Walker through: approval ratings != voting intentions generally, the latter being especially dependent upon who ends up facing him and events in the next 21 months. As a counterexample, consider Bush Sr, who had an approval rating of 89/8 (Gallup) a mere 20 months before losing badly to Clinton largely as a result of perceived economic ineptitude. As I pointed out in an earlier comment, from the exit polling there's good reason to believe that about 150,000 normally hardcore Dems sat out the recall election, suggesting a non-recall election would be on a knife edge.

Personally I don't understand why Walker re-emphasized the 250,000 jobs promise last week. Given the latest available jobs data and his own DoR's projections, it seems that we won't be anywhere near that by the time the next election rolls around. If he'd left it alone, he could have used the excuse of the recall to explain the anticipated shortfall and brushed it off as best he could. It seems to me to be a grave political miscalculation to willingly bring it to everyone's attention again, but I know not to underestimate Walker's political acumen. I'd be interested in any thoughts you may have on that.

Jeff spelled correctly: business leaders were waiting until after the recall to see who should remain in power till they made decisions. If Barrett won they would lay off more. Walker won and we can continue job growth.

Luke -

The comments I am reading here I’ve been reading in one iteration or another from the sealed-off-from-reality, Terrarium living Walker sycophants for well over 8-months. These are the same misguided folks who incessantly typed, “Mitt/Ryan/Thompson!!!” They were all so positive that America and Wisconsin would be given to the TAP Taliban on November 6, 2012! No one could break down the fantasy that a secretive robot, a petulant and unswerving liar, and a feeble minded, decrepit buffoon could ever be beaten by an honorable, tanned President Obama.

Then, President Obama won a 2nd term, by an incredibly astonishing margin. The Electoral College gave him 332 to 206 and the popular vote gave him 51% to 47% - how very appropriate! The great state of Wisconsin graciously reelected a man with honor, empathy and a deep love and respect for our Constitution.

You may have your opinions regarding Walker, that is fine. Conversely, when you observe the GOP and Walker, all you see is each one of them attempting to cannibalize each other, an 18th century ideology crumbling before your eyes, unable to find any lucid American who wants to be near them, much less join such narrow-minded, intolerant ideologues.

In 2014 the House is going back to the Democrats and Wisconsin will be electing a Democratic governor; no more dysfunctional, out-of-touch, Sheldon Adelson and Koch Brother robots!

Wisconsinites will positively interact with each other as true neighbors again…

@Steve: I'm pretty sure I can spell my own name, thank you for your concern.

"business leaders were waiting until after the recall to see who should remain in power till they made decisions. If Barrett won they would lay off more. Walker won and we can continue job growth."

The latest available data show that between June and December 2012 (preliminary figures), a grand total of 6,900 net new private sector jobs were created. Continuing 2013 and 2014 at that pace would put Wisconsin at 67,100 jobs over the course of Walker's first term. This is even less than his Department of Revenue projects, and barely a quarter of his promise despite 2 1/2 of his term's 4 years being free of the threat of recall.

Steve, the problem you have with the "blue fishers" is you imagine they are where your head should be.

Keif: The word is "fissure', you got that from being a fister.

Brian, you are right about the Democrats. There really isn't much of a plan. Progressives do have a plan (http://tinyurl.com/adeg24o), but I haven't heard of the party picking up on it.

But there is no rational reason to believe that Walker can pull it off using policies that haven't worked over the past 30 years. I'm not worried about Walker meeting his promise. Walker gives us plenty of reasons to underestimate him. Only those who possess a religious-like faith believe in Walker.

Keith- First off, I apologize for any inflammatory remarks I've made on this thread or any others. I do not know you personally, so I shouldn't judge you based on what others have said.

According to InBusiness Madison, a local business magazine in Dan County, there are some Wisconsin economic indicators worth noting. Revenue is up 1% in the period from January through November of 2012.

The Department of Financial Institutions reports an 8.8% increase in new business formation through the first six months of 2012 compared to the same period in 2011.

Meanwhile, Wisconsin companies attracted nearly $45 million of venture capital in the fourth quarter of 2012, which was almost half of what was raised for the entire year. For all of 2012, companies brought in over $95 million in venture capital compared to 2011’s $73 million, for an increase of 31% year to year. Nationally, venture investments declined 10%, according to a MoneyTree report by PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP.

It is important to note that Walker balanced the budget, which had a projected deficit through the end of 2012 of $3 billion, and actually posted a surplus. That was one of his campaign promises. He also promised to pay our debts to Minnesota, and those are paid. He also promised to lower property taxes and I find it hard pressed to find anyone that can claim on the state portion of their property taxes line item, an increase unless their value went up locally.

The Democrats will remain out of power as long as the gerrymandering in Wisconsin holds. Democrats won more votes statewide in 2012 than the GOP yet gerrymandering gives the GOP a legislative majority.

Under GAAP Walker did not balance the budget and our debt has grown under Walker. We have a "surplus" in the budget because Walker borrowed half a billion dollars.

Wisconsin has slid from a woeful 37th in job creation to 42nd.

Walker & his policies are a failure.

This "gerrymandering" charge is a bunch of partisan posturing by the side that lost a previous election and doesn't like the results of what happened.

Each election is different with regard to who votes for what issues and candidates and each election has consequences.

In 2010, the state Democrats could not persuade people to vote for their candidates -- the same people that voted in 2012 had the same opportunity to vote in 2010 (and the 2012 recall), they just chose not to.

Redistricting is a predictable event that happens every 10 years and the scenarios of redistricting are also predictable. The Democrats had the govenorship, assembly and senate in 2010 and lost all three that year. They knew the consequences of losing all three and could not persuade people to vote for their candidates under the pre-2012 district map.

State Democrats would be better advised figuring out a persuasive electoral platform for 2014, rather than gnashing their teeth about previous elections.

@Random Blog Commenter....I fundamentally don't disagree with your statement. However, the Democrats failure in the 2010 elections have saddled the state electorate with a Republican political advantage that will last at least a decade or longer. I think, you see this as business as usual, but it is not. Up until 2012, districts had to be drawn through arbitration, this time they have been drawn to give an unprecedented advantage to state Republicans. The only hope for change will be for Republican moderates to reassert them selves as a force in the party. I don't look to Democrats to create change and moderation, but the rise of a fraction Republican moderates.

Lyle- I disagree with you on the redistricting. This hadn't been a problem in te past because there had usually been a split control of the legislative chambers and/or Governor. The boundaries have by federal law always been drawn by controlling party, however, ifthere was a split, then it would be submitted for arbitration between both parties. the 2010 was a rare incident where one party controlled both chambers of the legislature and the governorship so no arbitration was needed. The Democrats did challenge the redistricting in court, which the court for the most part reaffirmed. It not only followed the law, but sustained a challenge. To think that either party would not try to gain advantage when in total control is naive at best.

@waiting415: "Wisconsin has slid from a woeful 37th in job creation to 42nd."

That's not the full picture: this is using the QCEW data that Walker himself touted as the gold standard during the recall election campaign. (Data available at http://tinyurl.com/anjx44n although readers will have to do the counting to get the ranking themselves).

FY10, 2009-2010: 20th
Calendar 2010 (Doyle's last year in office): 11th
FY11, 2010-2011 (Doyle's last budget year): 20th
Calendar 2011 (Walker's first full year; the preliminary version of these exact figures he used as a reason to re-elect him in 2012 before a ranking was available - if you voted for him on that basis I daresay you might want to make a re-evaluation): 38th
FY12, 2011-2012 (Walker's first budget year and the latest available): 42nd

Mr. Ruble,

Your comment of "I think, you see this as business as usual, but it is not. Up until 2012, districts had to be drawn through arbitration, this time they have been drawn to give an unprecedented advantage to state Republicans" has a tone of partisan posturing when, in reality, it is politicans doing their job. The legislature drawing districts is business as usual if the legislature can agree on a plan that the governor will sign -- just like any other legislation. Redistricting goes to arbitration if the legislature/governor cannot agree on a plan -- by law the issue cannot be tabled or left dormant so it is then arbitrated. Partisan power since was split in previous sessions that tackled redistricting so that is why there was arbitration -- their was no agreement that could make it through the legislative process. Looking at the WI Blue Book, the last time one party controlled the legislature and the governorship during a redistricting year was the 1951-1952 session.

The process worked as it was designed to work. Wringing of hands as to the result of the process and undermining the legitimacy of that process is partisan posturing.

"The process worked as it was designed to work. Wringing of hands as to the result of the process and undermining the legitimacy of that process is partisan posturing."

The fact is, however, that while it took an average of 36,000 votes to elect each Democrat to the Assembly, it only took 20,000 to elect each Republican.

In any general election these numbers are going to be different - even if the current system were ditched and we went whole-hog proportional representation. Small parties and independents gather quite a few votes and get no representation in the Assembly at all for their trouble, so a divergence to a certain extent is perfectly normal.

However, the ratio there of 1.8x between major parties is truly a vast gulf - the popular vote having been won by the Democrats by *6 points* (greater than Walker's 2010 margin, which was apparently enough to claim a mandate to do things he didn't so much as mention on the 2010 campaign trail). What we have now is not a government that squeaked in with a minority of the vote or a majority, but one that is constituted by a party that not only was soundly trounced at the polls, but even has a quorum supermajority.

The more the representation given diverges from the way people actually vote, the more the legitimacy of the electoral process itself is undermined. Which is not, I very much hope you will agree, the process as it was designed to work.

Wisconsin is ranked 18th in unemployment.
http://money.cnn.com/interactive/economy/state-unemployment-rates/

The job creation ranking is subject to variables that make it meaningless. A state could have 3% unemployment and still be ranked 50th in job creation.

Greg –

Actually, the unemployment rate/rank is the index that is subject to variables that make it profoundly questionable, mostly unreliable as a true measure of a state’s employment, unless you understand what it actually represents and what is factored out.

"True unemployment" from your list is probably closer to 15% for Wisconsin, not 6.6%.

“The official unemployment rate, which measures the proportion of the civilian labor force 16 years or older that is not engaged in productive activities but is actively seeking employment, might be either overstated or understated due to discouraged workers, part-time workers, and unreported legal or illegal employment. Taken together, these measurement problems suggest that the official unemployment rate is likely understated during business-cycle contraction and overstated during business-cycle expansions.”

http://www.amosweb.com/cgi-bin/awb_nav.pl?s=wpd&c=dsp&k=unemployment+rate,+measurement+problems

A sample of not represented:

1) People who are no longer eligible for unemployment benefits, they fall off the list

2) People who have exhausted their benefits, are still looking for work, and have now transitioned into Medicaid or some other state assistance program

3) People who are underemployed

4) People who moved to another state to look for a job

5) People who decided to retire early or move back home with their parents

6) Recent graduates from colleges or trade schools

Greg: If Walker had made a promise regarding the unemployment rate, you would have a point. However, he did not.

The job creation ranking is entirely relevant since Walker presented the underlying data (before the other states' was out to compare it to) and its contrast to the situation he inherited as evidence of his economic competence during the recall election campaign. Turns out that the situation he inherited was in fact one in which we had been beating most of the rest of the nation, and his leadership managed to turn Wisconsin around into the minor leagues.

As for the unemployment rate, in December 2010 the national U3 rate was at 9.3% and Wisconsin's was 7.8%, an advantage to our state of 1.5%. In December of 2012, the preliminary figures show the national rate at 7.8% and Wisconsin's at 6.6%, our advantage reduced to 1.2%.

Random Blog Commenter -

Actually, although you may view these Machiavellian maneuvers by the GOP as "partisan posturing" by Lyle, I view them as an overt attempt to undermine the will of WE THE PEOPLE, if not outright thievery...

"The fact is, however, that while it took an average of 36,000 votes to elect each Democrat to the Assembly, it only took 20,000 to elect each Republican."

No, it took one more vote than the opponent to elect each assembly member and state senator. Legislative districts are of similar size with regard to population. Just because BayView and Shorewood, etc. vote 70-30 for a Democrat doesn't mean that that area is under-represented and those extra votes count for anything beyond those legislative district boundaries.

"Actually, although you may view these Machiavellian maneuvers by the GOP as "partisan posturing" by Lyle, I view them as an overt attempt to undermine the will of WE THE PEOPLE, if not outright thievery..." The people did vote for their representative for their respective district. WE THE PEOPLE, as you describe them, had the opportunity to vote in 2010....they chose not to vote for Democratic candidates. You are blaming an outcome you don't like and a failure of a political party to win an election on a constitutional process that the people had the opportunity to influence.

Democrats in WI won't be successful in expanding their electoral base as long as they continue to wallow in what happened rather than finding a platform that will persuade people in Wisconsin who don't live in dense, urban districts to vote for them.

You seem to have gone out your way, Random, to avoid addressing my point, which I restate here:

"The more the representation given diverges from the way people actually vote, the more the legitimacy of the electoral process itself is undermined."

This misses the point: "Democrats in WI won't be successful in expanding their electoral base as long as they continue to wallow in what happened rather than finding a platform that will persuade people in Wisconsin who don't live in dense, urban districts to vote for them."

But WI Democrats *did* expand their electoral base in the Assembly elections of 2012 from 2010 by a long way, yet it did not shift the needle in the Assembly one bit. To regain the Assembly majority would require a uniform swing of 8.6% - in other words, the map is drawn such that Democrats would have to win the state 57.4-42.6 - what should normally be a crushing 14.8% win - in order to gather merely a bare majority of Assembly seats.

It's not the result that is in question, or even that there is a gap between votes and representation: I say again, it is the enormous size of the gap between how people voted and the kind of government they got as a result. This undermines the integrity of the electoral process itself, which is something all Wisconsinites should value.

Mr. Tolley,

You are stuck on the point that the results of election in 2012 should impact what happened in an election in 2010 and that somehow a bill that went through a constitution process is fraudulent. This is just as false a premise as those conservatives who decried senatorial recalls as fraudulent since it took only a minority of voters to bring one forward. It is the system we have.

"The more the representation given diverges from the way people actually vote, the more the legitimacy of the electoral process itself is undermined." I somehow doubt your sincerity of this statement is based on legitimacy of the electoral process as it is in the side you preferred chose the wrong election to stay home.

Also, your immediate extrapolation of numbers ignores the fact that each election is different. The state GOP has watered down their districts to gain the maximum number that lean their direction. A shift in demographics, lose of support of GOP policies, poor GOP candidates and quality Democratic party candidates provide opportunities for a party that wants to work for it. Whining about election results both past and present and couching that disappointment in platitudes about electoral legitimacy won't win a single moderate voter or recruit a single quality candidate that will appeal to voters in those districts.

@Brian Dey....I would object even if it were the Democrats who redrew the districts rather than the Republicans. The process is fundamentally flawed and we should move to a system like some other states where the districts are drawn by independent third parties who have no vested interest in the outcome. As it stands now, urban areas are over represented by Democrats while suburban and rural areas are over represented by Republicans. The system has been "jury rigged" in such a way to almost guarantee the Republicans a majority in the state legislature. Same goes for congressional districts. As some have indicated that they want to change how we elect our electoral college electors from winner take all to proportional based on congressional districts, again the Republicans would benefit while the Democrats would suffer. I am not as naive as you claim and I was involved in politics while you were still getting your backside wiped by your mother.

Our elected representatives should be making an effort to represent all of the constituents and not just the party faithful. Again you and others demonstrate a complete disregard for fundamental moral principles and values of inclusion verses exclusion. You have been famous for practicing "pocket book morality" and the way the Republicans have redistricted, you will be able to practice your form of morality without hindrance.

@Random: you continue to fail to address my point, which is the damage that gerrymandering does to the legitimacy of the electoral process.

"You are stuck on the point that the results of election in 2012 should impact what happened in an election in 2010"

No idea where you got that from.

"and that somehow a bill that went through a constitution process is fraudulent. This is just as false a premise as those conservatives who decried senatorial recalls as fraudulent since it took only a minority of voters to bring one forward. It is the system we have."

Actually, no, it isn't. Yes, a minority of voters can and have brought about recall elections. However, causing a recall election is of course not synonymous with the result of that or any other election. I'm sure that you can see that.

If you wish to bring up the question of the constitutionality of Act 43, check this out:

Article IV Section 4 of the Wisconsin Constitution: "The members of the assembly shall be chosen biennially, by single districts, on the Tuesday succeeding the first Monday of November in even-numbered years, by the qualified electors of the several districts, such districts to be bounded by county, precinct, town or ward lines, to consist of contiguous territory and be in as compact form as practicable." (https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/misc/wiscon/_14/_6)

Note the specification that the districts be contiguous - there is no ambiguity there. Then take, for instance, Assembly District 79 (http://legis.wisconsin.gov/ltsb/redistricting/PDFs/ad79.pdf). Notice all the non-contiguous parts? In what way is such an Assembly District contiguous? So in what way does such an Assembly District meet the constitutional requirement of contiguity?

(Yes, I am quite aware that they have been challenged and okayed, but I am not aware that the contiguity issue being raised in those cases).

" "The more the representation given diverges from the way people actually vote, the more the legitimacy of the electoral process itself is undermined." I somehow doubt your sincerity of this statement is based on legitimacy of the electoral process as it is in the side you preferred chose the wrong election to stay home."

You are of course free to doubt my sincerely all you like, but that is not an excuse for failing to address my oft-repeated point: Democratic Party supporters *didn't* stay home in 2012 - they showed up in much greater numbers than their counterparts. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

"Note the specification that the districts be contiguous - there is no ambiguity there. Then take, for instance, Assembly District 79 (http://legis.wisconsin.gov/ltsb/redistricting/PDFs/ad79.pdf). Notice all the non-contiguous parts? In what way is such an Assembly District contiguous? So in what way does such an Assembly District meet the constitutional requirement of contiguity?"

That is a contiguous district with regard to wards, etc. in that all of the unicorporated townships such as the Town of Burke are represented in the district, while those areas that were once part of that township that are now Madison and Sun Prairie are in different districts. Note the donut holes of the Town of Burke in both cities.

Suburbanization and annexation create some very strange municipal boundaries. Just look at a map Milwaukee and the southern border of Wauwatosa.

Go to google and punch in "madison, wi", "sun prarie, wi" etc and hit the map button, you will see that the boundaries of those cities match up with legislative boundaries and the donut holes, etc. that create that district.

I am not ignoring your oft-repeated statement, I just don't think you are sincere about it based upon the partisan statements you have made on other forums here.

And it is fine to be partisan. We all have our preferences and biases and we will never change each other's minds in an internet forum. We can though understand that a constitutional process was followed by the legislature that the people elected in 2010. With regard to the outcome of that process, life isn't fair, wear a helmet.

Random:

Do you have a 'before' map of district 79 to compare with?

"Actually, no, it isn't. Yes, a minority of voters can and have brought about recall elections. However, causing a recall election is of course not synonymous with the result of that or any other election. I'm sure that you can see that."

My analogy is about people complaining about the legitimacy of an election when the mechanisms or outcome either do not favor a person's side or create a hardship for them. Both the election of 2010 and the recall mechanism were legitimate -- the only difference is that it was a different ideological side complaining about it.

I did not look at a previous map since the assertion made was that District 79 was not contiguous with regard to wards. My map analysis showed that it was contiguous with regard wards due to strange municipal boundaries. I also suspect that there has been lots of annexation and population growth going on in the 10-year period between district maps so such an analysis would be moot. Given growth in that area, by 2021, the remainder of the Town of Burke will have been incorporated and resulting legislative district map will be dramatically different as a result.

Mr. Tolley,

I would like to retract "based upon the partisan statements you have made on other forums here." I confused you with another commenter in the chain of conversation. I apologize.

That's fair enough, Random. I looked at the old District 81 map (parts of which are now within the new District 79) and noticed that it had similar 'non-contiguities' near Burke as well.

"That is a contiguous district with regard to wards, etc. in that all of the unicorporated townships such as the Town of Burke are represented in the district"

Thanks for digging into that, but the Constitution doesn't say "contiguous... with respect to wards", it says "contiguous territory".

"I am not ignoring your oft-repeated statement, I just don't think you are sincere about it based upon the partisan statements you have made on other forums here.

"And it is fine to be partisan."

I agree, it is fine to be partisan. However, to substitute an accusation of insincerely for an actual answer to a point made and supported with data is more than a little rude, do you not think? You could have just said that you don't wish to answer my question and to the winner of the 2010 go the redistricting spoils, but you didn't.

"My analogy is about people complaining about the legitimacy of an election when the mechanisms or outcome either do not favor a person's side or create a hardship for them. Both the election of 2010 and the recall mechanism were legitimate -- the only difference is that it was a different ideological side complaining about it."

That's true, both were legitimate. But I haven't questioned the 2010 election: I've questioned the *2012* election given the (manufactured) divergence between the composition of how people voted and the composition of the Assembly.

Geoff, I agree that district 79 is not contiguous, but there are two points I would like to bring up:
1) The new maps were upheld in federal court in Baldus vs. Brennan, with only one change between two borders in Milwaukee.

2) All of the districts in and around Madison (46, 47, 48, 76, 77, 78 along with 79) are represented by Democrats. I am not sure why the districts were designed that way, but it definitely doesn't fit the spirit of gerrymandering.

"1) The new maps were upheld in federal court in Baldus vs. Brennan, with only one change between two borders in Milwaukee."

That's true, but unfortunately not relevant: federal courts can't rule on state constitutional issues (except insofar as they may conflict with the Federal one). So the issue of whether the non-contiguity violated Article IV Section 4 of the Wisconsin Constitution could not have been addressed in that case.

"2) All of the districts in and around Madison (46, 47, 48, 76, 77, 78 along with 79) are represented by Democrats. I am not sure why the districts were designed that way, but it definitely doesn't fit the spirit of gerrymandering."

My point wasn't that non-contiguity implied gerrymandering (it just arose in that discussion); my point is that non-contiguity is in conflict with the state constitution. I just picked AD79 because it was a good illustration: the issue arises in other districts too, e.g. AD98 (http://legis.wisconsin.gov/ltsb/redistricting/PDFs/ad98.pdf).

And the link:

http://workerspartypac.blogspot.com/2013/01/immense-catalog-of-wrongdoing-at-wis.html

...Audit report critical of state's accountability for development programs, 6/12/2012, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel at: http://www.jsonline.com/business/audit-report-critical-of-states-accountability-for-development-programs-5b5ohcs-158617025.html.

Fran Martin- So sorry you don't read beyond headlines. But I was there working with Walker on Operation Freedom. We took grea pride in working to help those returning home. The staffer that you referred to above was outed by Walker once it was found out that he we was embezzling funds; turned over to the DA for investigation. The proper steps were taken and you will not hear Walker or me or anyone else involved stick up for this scumbag and I hope he gets the book thrown at him with jail time and reimbursement. So keep your stupid, ignorant and uneducated comments that lie on the verge of libl and slander to yourselves or do a little more research before you spew lies you know noting of.

Brian Dey -

I’m shocked, just shocked, I tell you... and this coming from a close, personal friend, colleague and deputy chief of staff of our great Saint Walker...

No doubt about it, Wisconsin is definitely open for business, MONKEY BUSINESS!

“Timothy D. Russell, a former aide to Gov. Scott Walker, was sentenced Tuesday to two years in prison and five years probation for stealing more than $21,000 from a veterans organization that Walker named him to lead.

Milwaukee Circuit Judge David Hansher imposed the sentence, saying he found insincere Russell's apology and acceptance of responsibility for stealing from a nonprofit chosen to administer Walker's annual Operation Freedom veterans picnic at the zoo.

"There is also no true regret, remorse or repentance," Hansher told Russell. "I find that you don't even have any shame."

He said Russell had "a serious character flaw with regard to honesty and integrity."

Yes, it permeates the Walker Administration!

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/former-walker-aide-sentenced-to-two-years-in-prison-for-theft-d78fnq3-187897041.html

@Brian Dey....What is a Racine County resident doing working on Milwaukee County's Operation Freedom? How close were you with Heritage Guard Preservation Society?

I missed a racist joke? Damn it.

No birth certificate required, a little affirmative action and walla, a President.

Greg:
Did you need to provide a birth certificate when you applied for college? I know I didn’t. I am a citizen and even financial aid was able to verify my background based on my applications. The President is a citizen. He always was a citizen. He got to where he is today by talent and intelligence – nothing more. To accuse him of otherwise is so asinine that it never ceases to amaze me Conservatives still aren’t over it five years later.

Get over it, already.

I said nothing about "The President", did I? I was just playing along with the "Chuckle for the day".
Get a sense of humor, already.

Gophers?

and robert has join Schmitzy and Johnny Wilson in the mud.

Oh OK, we certainly don't want any gerrymandering gophers.

Gerrymandering gophers? Carl Spackler is your man.

Gophers, not golfers!!!

A good WSJ article, the quote above are from the comments. The comments give a look at how others view our Governor and the changes made.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323485704578253972136260076.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_AboveLEFTTop#articleTabs%3Darticle

Wait, an opinion piece in a Murdoch paper that claims that "the spurious constitutional challenges have guttered out in federal appeals court" in complete ignorance that not only does Wisconsin have a constitution too but that large chunks of Act 10 have already been declared null and void for violating it (http://thewheelerreport.com/releases/September12/0914/0914mtivwalker.pdf), is "a good WSJ article"?

I'd hate to have to read a bad one.

Me too.

The funny thing is that the Democrats are OK with all of the above as long as the mining company pays a bunch of taxes that others do not have to pay. The Earth is just as dead, but we made them pay...BWAHAAA!!!

Let me help you out, education is a terrible thing to waste.
Lefties can bang their drums and rely on a single, 42nd in jobs creation, number. But to solve a problem that single number is as useless as Barrett's Trolley. Other numbers like 6.6% unemployment, number of people seeking employment, number of employers seeking employees, number of qualified/trained employees, job compensation level and so on, are important to determining a solution. This is how problems are solved, but it doesn't play well with the left's one note song.

The "left's one note song" is actually Walker's. It is he who made the very specific promise about job gains.

The 42nd placing isn't the be all of this, it's at least /theoretically/ possible (even if highly unlikely) to gain 250,000 over four years at the same time as ranking so low among the states. However, given that Walker inherited an economy that ranked 11th in job growth rate (using the data he himself has publicly endorsed as the most accurate) it is indicative that we could be doing so much better.

It indicates that the prospect of falling far short of his repeated promise isn't coming about due to the national economy taking a jobs dive (which would be beyond Walker's ability to control), but rather specifically to Wisconsin and what is more, specifically to Wisconsin since Walker took over.

By all means let's look at U3, U6, job postings, wages etc and see if there are any indicators there as to whether the underlying issues include insufficient demand/wages for new jobs etc, but seeking solutions to any such problems is entirely orthogonal to the turnaround we've seen since Walker took over. Whatever changes he's made, they've not been helpful in their net to the momentum of Wisconsin's jobs recovery.

Frankly, if at this point we're still having to look around for how to help the Walker administration do its job then it's clear that Walker made the 250,000 promise with no idea whatsoever what to do to get there or why it's gone pear-shaped so far.

Seems a bit schizophrenic to admonish Walker for not working to create jobs in one post, and then in the next, applaud when he is admonished for his job saving/creating policy...

I remember specifically in MLK's famous speech, he supported WEA Trust ripping off the tax payers. He was a man of vision.

"Union rights" = forced unionism, no one is stopping anyone from joining a union!

So they are giving an award to a dead guy, from a dead guy? Let's get serious!

Johnson asked a question the American people want an answer to.
Hillary ran an end around towing the line for Sir Adolf Obama.

I agree with Craig. I think it was a very important question to ask and judging from Hillary's non-answer, it seems that the Obama administration isn't able or willing to learn from their mistakes on how the situation was handled.

CowDung -

Hillary, herself, called for an “Accountability Review Board" to investigate the entire Benghazi debacle near the end of September. The ARP reported in December 18 that they did not hold Hillary culpable or negligent in the entire matter. They did put forth 29 separate recommendations to attempt to make sure something comparable to Benghazi would be less likely in the future; Hillary is in the process of implementing all 29 recommendations… these changes will be followed up when Kerry becomes the new Secretary of State…

CowDung and his RED SISTER state, "I agree with Craig. I think it was a very important question to ask and judging from Hillary's non-answer, it seems that the Obama administration isn't able or willing to learn from their mistakes on how the situation was handled."

The ARP and the implementation of 29-changes contradicts the massive puffery from the monumentally ignorant dynamic duo…

http://bangordailynews.com/2013/01/23/politics/hillary-clinton-angrily-defends-handling-of-benghazi-attack/?ref=latest

Johnson made himself into a national simpleton when he stated that Hillary “could have just picked up a phone and called Benghazi to find out what happened”; of course, we people in Wisconsin know that he’s a simpleton, as well as a right wing nut case. His only purpose in accusing Hillary of anything was to get face time to impress [both] of his supporters and to play politics with the death of 4-Americans…

Ok Wilson, pull your blue fist out of your ass long enough to answer the question for Hillary. Oh that's right, when you are confronted with facts, you seem to deflect to another subject matter.

morninmist -

I just loved the Hillary smack down!

Johnson is just a simply, simply little boy, attempting to gain political points from engaging the most political perceptive and personable woman in all of America… what a beating!

Hi John
Ron J. was on CNN this am. Crying as ususal. I do not know if he made the rounds to Faux as I do not watch that so called "news" station. But S. OBrien got her smackdown of Johnson. His 15 minutes of fame is boring.

...............
John Wilson
9:03 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013

morninmist -

I just loved the Hillary smack down!

Johnson is just a simply, simply little boy, attempting to gain political points from engaging the most political perceptive and personable woman in all of America… what a beating!

ha ha

I will have to check to see what our Fauz Sen said.

BrewCity Brawler @BrewCityBrawler 5m
So how fast will @SenRonJohnson run to @SykesCharlie to explain how he kicked Kerry's ass?

In what way was Johnson's questioning even close to anything that McCarthy did?

Hardly worth getting excited about when you consider the source...

http://greenfield.patch.com/articles/community-activist-denounces-rush-limbaugh

http://greenfield.patch.com/articles/reduction-in-number-of-meetings-no-reduction-in-pay

Sour grapes all the way around...

I'd rather slam mine in a drawer.

Yeah, the same John Kerry who wrote a letter of support to a Judge, for one of his navy buddies who was convicted of possessing child pornography. Kerry and the Clinton's are some of the worst examples of human beings there are.

ummm... Walker has a buddy like that. Trial due pretty soon.

KHD
12:51 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013

Yeah, the same John Kerry who wrote a letter of support to a Judge, for one of his navy buddies who was convicted of possessing child pornography. Kerry and the Clinton's are some of the worst examples of human beings there are.

ha ha. What a silly statement.

CowDung
12:41 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013

The sheer volume of posts attacking Johnson as a fool/idiot/embarrassment/etc. pretty much confirms that Johnson was very much on target yesterday...

Most bullies are full of fears--and Johnson came across as a stupid bully.

Well johnny.
Here is a good laugh for you. Not all is doom and gloom.

Colbert: Hillary left Benghazi hearing with GOP’s ‘nuts in her attaché case’
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/25/colbert-hillary-left-benghazi-hearing-with-gops-nuts-in-her-attache-case/

Yes, nothing is as funny as terrorism and dead Americans. You lefties have no standards or class.

morninmist –

Colbert is absolutely hilarious and spot on!

I’m still laughing!

THX for sharing!

And as a result, we have one Republican Senator, one Democratic Senator and a mixed bag of Congress people. We have businesses complaining, unions complaining, individuals on both sides of the political equation complaining. We had Democrats in control at the state level, now we have Republicans and it'll change again in the future. Nobody's getting exactly what they want when they want it and everybody seems to think they should. Whether you like it or not, that's pretty much the way our system was set up to work. Apparently, you can throw boatloads of money at it if you wish and it hardly changes things at all.

Frances Martin –

Thanks… it almost seems as if we are going back to the “Good ol’ Days” of 1789 when only the rich, White landowners could vote… makes you wonder who the slaves are?

I'm sure that great American Patriot, Ted Nugent, with his merry band of Tea Party Treasonists, will show us all the way back to our founding father's nightmare. Yes, indeed, that is the great American Experiment in Democracy.

It all looks exactly like what the White, wealthy, bigoted, and entitled need to make them so very delighted. Sadly, there are some folks who take the long view and think this is just the normal pendulum of back and forth in a democracy… this is what self-delusion looks like.

“More than 99% of “Outside” spending in Wisconsin’s Congressional races was from groups registered outside of Wisconsin."

http://www.demos.org/publication/billion-dollar-democracy-unprecedented-role-money-2012-elections

Frances, about a year ago I was in the midst of clearing out the family home. My dad was one of those "never throw anything out" survivors of the depression. I came upon a cache of old newspapers dating back to the late '50s and early '60s that he'd hung onto for some reason. One thing I noticed while looking through them trying to figure what it was that caused him to keep them was the preponderance of articles that would be hard to distinguish from those we see now. The same kinds of political scandals, the same concerns about influence peddling and corruption, the same back and forth between Republicans and Democrats. Indictments, committee meetings, task forces, legislative grandstanding, moneyed names in positions of power, etc. All there, all pretty much the same. The difference, best I could see, was that the dollar amounts were much smaller (reminding one of Dr. Evil's "1 million dollars" ransom demand in exchange for not destroying the world) and that the news wasn't delivered in a non-stop, 24 hour fashion with stories hyped to levels beyond their worth in order to keep people's attention, and with significantly fewer dead horses beaten beyond recognition. I was kind of amazed at the similarity. I hadn't really expected it. I guess it gave me a little bit of a different perspective on the things we fret over today as if they're the harbingers of Armageddon. It was a time of pretty significant change, not unlike this one. Somehow they/we muddled through.

Then you need to ask yourself what, exactly, is it that's caused our middle class to wither away? What's really different from the way things were in the 50s and 60s? Those are the challenges we're facing now that are unique, or at least different than they were at that particular point in time. The influence of money in our political system is not unique.

Frances Martin -

That is one of my major concerns also.

Furthermore, the pace of change – largely driven by computer technology and offshoring – has increased quite drastically since the 50s - 60s; What formerly took a decade now takes several years, and most people find it difficult to accept change - period - but the pace of change now makes almost everyone both anxious and uncertain.

I do not have a clue regarding what all the people in our current unemployed workforce – with only a HS diploma and muscles – will be doing for future employment. This will only further extremely exacerbate the wealth disparity issues.

walker is a nutcase like Johnson!

http://www.uppitywis.org/blogarticle/walker-bow-and-arrows-pose-just-much-threat-school-safety-guns

Walker: 'Bow and Arrows Pose Just as Much a Threat to School Safety as Guns'
Submitted by Jud Lounsbury on Mon, 01/28/2013 - 12:47pm

I kid you not, that's what Walker said a couple of weeks ago:

Walker said too much attention is paid to the weapon in such shootings and cited a recent case as an example: "We just had someone last week in Neenah near a school kill someone with a bow and arrow."

As Politifact points outs, not only was there no bow and arrow killing in Neenah, but noboy was injured. And the incident in questiong didn't even happen anywhere near a school.

KHD -

Yeah, that’s like thanking your GOD for Gonorrhea and Syphilis…

John Wilson, I also thank GOD that you are not my neighbor and you should be thanking him that you are not too.

KHD -

MAN created GOD... so that's my take on that.

I would not mind having you in my neighborhood, but then I like diversity of race and opinion, most people, which I view as a large part of our present day problems, only associate with "like thinkers" and "like Party" members, so they end up being intolerant, misinformed, intellectually lazy and very one dimensional people. That creates much divisiveness, as you only have to deal with people who think and feel as you do, once you are exposed to anything different, it automatically becomes EVIL. It does not fit in with your narrow scheme of things, it’s different.

The Mafia has a long-standing practice along those lines: “If you can’t control it or understand it, kill it.”

Does that fairly state where you are coming from?