"Because I think there's nothing more motivating than the feeling that you've been wronged . . . ."

Speaking from experience?

Try again Vicki. Walker wasn't challenging the idea of collective bargaining, he was challenging the idea of public sector unions. The word "IGNORANT" comes to mind...

Vicki Bennett -

Don't forget Lyin' Ryan, he was all over calling for the union refs to be brought back too... but then, what can you really expect from these guys...

Not to mention, bringing back the 'real' refs really has nothing to do with their union status. They aren't better refs because they are unionized, they are better refs because they have more experience officiating at that level of football.

CowDung -

Not to mention, you just do not get that LEVEL of EXPERIENCE, at THAT LEVEL of FOOTBALL... being a SCAB...

You don't get it from being a union member either. You get it by working your way up through the ranks and being good at what you do...

From NFL.com:

"Here are the basic requirements necessary to qualify as an official in the National Football League:

--We expect our candidates to have a minimum of 10 years of experience in officiating football, at least five of which have been on a varsity collegiate or other minor professional level.

--Our candidates must be in excellent physical condition and belong to an accredited football officials association or have previous experience in football as a player or coach.

--Each applicant is requested to furnish us with a detailed copy of his or her your collegiate officiating schedule for the past three seasons, listing dates, schools, location of games, and positions worked.

If you meet all of the above requirements, please submit all the requested information to:

NFL Officiating
345 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10017"

@John Wilson -

Congrats on having made the stupidest comment on this board!

CowDung -

You probably missed the [BASIC] "Here are the BASIC requirements to qualify as an official in the National Foolball league."

Please send your information to NY today and I'm sure you will be on the field tomorrow as a new NFL Ref...

The following is an interesting read...

http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-qa-jerry-markbreit-20120928,0,3804661.story

I dIdn't miss anything, John. My point was that it was experience at the lower levels, not union membership that provide the background and qualifications required to be an NFL official...

CowDung -

Yes, I'm afraid you did miss a lot... Additionally, you have to pass League tests, be in good physical condition, memorize the rule book, to date, know how and under what circumstances to appy these rules and exceptions, see the folowing link...

And, guess what?

You also have to pass the union tests and actually JOIN THE UNION, to name just a few qualifications.

The NFL is no place for folks [Refs.] with a BASIC set of skills... IF the recent past has not convinced you of that, then there simply is no hope...

http://football.about.com/cs/football101/a/nflofficial.htm

Yes--the link you just posted is identical to what the NFL link I posted states.

Again, it isn't union membership that provides the experience, training or knowledge that it takes to be an NFL official.

The only problem with the replacement refs was that all the refs were replacements rather than having a mix of experienced and inexperienced officials. They didn't have the chance to work alongside the more experienced officials like all the 'real' officials did when they first joined the ranks of NFL officials...

CowDung -

No, it is not the same link nor is the content the same.

"The only problem with the replacement refs was that all the refs were replacements rather than having a mix of experienced and inexperienced officials. They didn't have the chance to work alongside the more experienced officials like all the 'real' officials did when they first joined the ranks of NFL officials..."

How many years would these replacement refs have to work alongside with the REAL REFS before they came up to standard?

How many games would the Packers have to lose before you understood?

The only problem with your argument, other than it being a monumentally over-simplification of the real issues involved – plus your inherent bias against unions – is that it really demonstrates your lack of the totality of skill sets it takes to make a REAL NFL REF…

@Lyin' John Wilson -

Then explain for us how union membership automatically makes an NFL referee competent to perform the duties of the job.

The content isn't the same?

From your link:
"If you are an experienced football official looking for a shot at the NFL, here are the minimum requirements necessary to qualify as an official in the National Football League:

• Must have a minimum of 10 years experience officiating football, at least five of which must have been at a varsity collegiate or another professional level.

• Must be in excellent physical condition.

• Must belong to an accredited football officials association or have experience in football as a player or coach.

• Each candidate must furnish the NFL with a detailed copy of his officiating schedule for the past three seasons, listing dates, schools, location of games, and positions worked.

If you feel you meet the NFL's requirements, submit all the required information to:

NFL Officiating
280 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10017"

Compare that to what I posted above.

John:

How do you think they get new refs for the NFL? They don't just join the union and are automatically endowed with the knowledge and experience of the 'real' NFL officials. The replacement refs we saw this season are the same people that would move into vacancies when a current NFL official leaves the job.

Read the bios of the current NFL officials. They all got their experience by working their way up through the high school and college ranks before getting called up to work in the NFL. It's not a matter of working years with 'real' NFL refs before they are up to the standard. They begin in the NFL as a member of the officiating team. Did you ever notice that sometimes calls are reversed by other officials or the referee? It's likely that those calls were made by a less experienced official and 'corrected' by the more experienced officials on the field. The situation this year was that the more experienced NFL officials weren't on the field with the new guys, so the mistakes were not corrected.

Randy1949 -

Oh, please! Football hasn't been a GAME since the 1970's. It's a BUSINESS, a MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS, played with a ball.

This is the sort of platitude spouted by a sub-mediocre, out-of-touch, uninformed mind...

Steve Ebbie -

Hey, Walker & Lyin' Ryan are following the WILLARD messaging protocol: Flip-Flop, tell 'em what you think they want to hear, and, never miss an opportunity to pander...

One of the few things left - after the most divisive governor in Wisconsin, ever - that we Wisconsinite’s can UNITE about is the GREEN BAY PACKERS!

Look for either Lyin’ Ryan or Walker to both take full credit for bringing the REAL REFS back in future campaign videos. Ryan not only ran a marathon in 2-minutes, but also saved the Green Bay Packers by personally carrying, on his own back, all the REAL REFS back to the NFL…

@Steve Ebbie -

Walker is a uniter - throughout the shenanigans that went on in Madison with the blue fisters, Walker was constantly saying 'let's work together.' He wasn't marching around or occupying the Capitol with a poster of Mary Bell or Mahlon Mitchell depicting them as Hitler, was he?

Get a clue!

@Lyin' John Wilson -

How come you never call out Obama for all of his LIES - halfing the deficit, no mandate in his healthcare plan, shovel ready jobs, unemployment below 8%, closing Gitmo, ending the wars on day 1, bringing peace to the middle east, won't rest until every American who's looking for work has a job, ... the list is quite literally endless!

Ryan's not the liar - that honor belongs to your boy Obama!

JRH –

Anyone who has ever read any of your incoherent, inaccurate, mind-numbing diatribes on the Patch understands your social, cultural and cognitive challenges, all too well.

Subsequently, the closing in your post, [“…that honor belongs to your boy Obama!"] only confirms who and what you are; anyone with an iota of social awareness would not use the word “boy” in its placement in front of Obama…

I call out EVERYONE who is patently dishonest, dissembling, disingenuous and LYING…

This gets complicate for folks would haven’t evolved beyond the reptilian brain stage, yet, so please read, analyze and make sure you really comprehend what I am saying, before you vomit all over the Patch again.

President Obama stated numerous things in his campaign that he WANTED TO DO, but really required the cooperation of congress – the party of “NO” – to accomplish.

Conversely, with respect to Lyin’ Ryan, he has LIED about things that he HAS DONE and more importantly, can be FACT CHECKED, by anyone who cares to go on Bush’s Internet(s)…

Lyin’ Ryan stated things he HAS DONE, which only required a modicum of TRUTH on his part = he LIED!

@Lyin' John Wilson -

Now you're the one who's lying about Obama's lies!

Obama didn't need Congress to end the wars on day 1, nor did he need permission from Congress to close Gitmo. As commander in chief, Obama could have ordered both of those things done and there's nothing that anyone could have done to stop him.

And Congress passed his stimulus plan, the one that he promised would create 8 million new shovel ready jobs and lower unemployment below 8% after he changed the way in which the BLS collects such data, and even then under the new Obama way of computing the numbers, unemployment hasn't dipped below 8% since he has taken office!

As far as halfing the deficit is concerned, what you call the "party of NO," was actually trying to help Obama accomplish this - remember all the balanced budget amendments, cut, cap, and balance, and all the spending cuts that the GOP controlled House passed? It was Obama and the Dems that shot all those down!

As far a the individual mandate in Obamacare, that whole debacle is owned by Obama and the Dems. And let's not forget how Obama promised that we would be able to watch all the negotiations on C-SPAN 3 because after all, he's Mr. Transparency! Well, Hoffa was watching but he didn't see any negotiations. And it wasn't the GOP that stopped from doing this.

This could go on forever.

Obama owns his LIES, and you own your LIES about Obama's LIES. But in true liberal fashion, you try to point the finger - PATHETIC!

JRH –

NO, this cannot go on forever...

And, in American, you have to build a concensus to get things done; it is President Obama, not King Obama!

I sense a little drift here, from the NFL Refs, Walker’s and Lyin’ Ryan’s comments and many LIES… now to a total attack on your favorite target of hateful, inaccurate and demeaning comments: President Obama.

“President Obama stated numerous things in his campaign that he WANTED TO DO, but really required the cooperation of CONGRESS – the party of “NO” – to accomplish.”

His own party also opposed some of his initiatives… still… CONGRESS!

You cannot really believe your own disingenuous assertions, and I am certainly not going to hop on board your Ferris wheel with you!

“In 2009, when the administration moved toward closing the prison, Obama faced fierce opposition from Republicans over where the detainees would be held. He also had to deal with resistance in his own party, and Senate Democrats blocked $80 million that would have funded closing Guantánamo during Obama’s first year.”

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/203727-obama-promise-to-close-prison-at-guantanamo-still-unfulfilled

Again, we were discussing things that President Obama WANTED TO DO; conversely, the numerous things Lyin’ Ryan ACTUALLY DID and made a conscious decision to simply LIE about…

Ryan LIED… WILLARD/RYAN lost… planet earth is safe from Neanderthals for 4-more years…

@Lyin' John Wilson -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VlXfs1K04g

Obama didn't say that he'd try to gain a consensus to accomplish something that he'd like to do. To the contrary, Obama said vote for me, and this will happen - take it to the bank.

And yet, Hoffa doesn't recall any troops being called home by Obama on day 1 of his administration, do you? If you took that promise to the bank, the bank would have issued a insufficient funds notice against Obama's account!

All of Obama's other LIES arise from very similar situations.

So please - STOP LYING to try and cover for your boy Obama!

And what has Ryan lied about exactly?

Who cares how fast Ryan can run a marathon? If you really want to go into stupid crap like that, then Hoffa can bring up how Obama lied about how his appearance on The View was merely to give women "eye candy" to look at, when clearly it was done to further his re-election campaign! You really want to start getting into non-issue trivial crap, because Obama can go toe-to-toe with Ryan, and probably surpass him in that respect!

Get a clue!

JRH –

Lyin' goes to CHARACTER!

Ryan told Hugh Hewitt in an August interview that he had run a marathon in “under three, high twos.” Then, after an investigation by Runner’s World, Ryan admitted he had actually run 4:01:25.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/09/paul-ryans-marathon-everyone-else-remembers-his-or-her-time.html#ixzz27nlSXMuW

In his double bid to become VP and be reelected to the House, Ryan has lied about Medicare. He has lied about defense spending and he lied about unemployment numbers just this last weekend.

Ryan has lied about the closing of the GM plant in Janesville. Ryan lied about the US credit rating and debt commission.

Ryan's entire career facade as a 'deficit hawk' is a complete lie.

Then, there was the mountain climbing fiasco.

A couple of years ago in an interview, Ryan talked at length about his workout routine and his love of P90X. Ryan brags:

"I keep my body fat between 6 and 8 percent."

That impressive BMI got lots of play when Ryan was tapped to be the VP candidate. People marveled and joked about it and the number was widely repeated - and Ryan never refuted it. None of us schleps stopped to ask if that could possibly be true - is Ryan's body fat somewhere in the 7% range?

Well, it turns out it is not - another exaggeration by Mr. Wonderful. What is with this guy?

NO ACCOMPLISHMENTS-FAUX!

http://rootriversiren.blogspot.com/2012/09/wtf-paul-ryan-lied-about-his-body-fat.html

@Lyin' John Wilson -

"In his double bid to become VP and be reelected to the House, Ryan has lied about Medicare. He has lied about defense spending and he lied about unemployment numbers just this last weekend."

No he didn't. You're the one who's lying about him lying.

"Ryan has lied about the closing of the GM plant in Janesville."

No he didn't - Hoffa debunked this in detail before.

"Ryan lied about the US credit rating and debt commission."

No he didn't. Again, you're the one who's lying about him lying.

And as far as his athletic abilities are concerned - honestly, who cares?!?!

JRH –

‘Lyin' goes to CHARACTER!’

Every person in America SHOULD CARE DEEPLY when a candidate for VP/Congress LIES... about ANYTHING...

“Ryan's entire career facade as a 'deficit hawk' is a complete lie.”

He voted 98% with Bush’s expenditures, and, TARP, Auto-loan, Stimulus…

I suspect that you do not understand that, simply having Hoffa say "IT" does NOT make things A FACT... although, in your alternate universe, I'm sure it does...

You, my friend, have “debunked” absolutely NOTHING, although you have babbled a lot, engaged in a lot of name calling and ultimately, vomited all over the Patch…

“And as far as his athletic abilities are concerned - honestly, who cares?!?!"

WE THE PEOPLE CARE… AND WE CARE VERY MUCH!

‘Lyin' goes to CHARACTER!’

@Lyin' John Wilson -

If you care so much, then how come you don't care about any of Obama's LIES???

John Wilson says "Lyin' goes to character.
Is that like:
"I sat in Rev. Wright's pews for 20 years but I never really listened."
"Bill Ayers, he's just a guy in my neighborhood."
"I promise to cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term".
"If I can't get this done it will be a one-term proposition".
Fast and Furious has to use executive privilege.
It's about a video trailer released last July. It's not a coordinated terrorist attack this past Sept 11th.

There's alot more from this president but we don't have the room to expand here.
Obama is a real character all right.

@pull my string Keith Best...Do you ever have an original thought that doesn't come out of the GOP/Tea Party talking points? What are you going to say when your candidates don't prevail?

"Hey Lyle, I counted. That the 63rd time you've used the line "Pull my string". Dontcha think its time to come up with a new witty insult?"

Oops, I stand corrected That's now 64 times. Lyle, you're getting so very predictable. Not very original, are ya.

Keith Best –

“I sat in Rev. Wright’s pews for 20 years but I never really listened.”
Did Obama really say that, if so, site your reference?

You seem to possess a truly remarkable trait, namely, being able to read Obama’s mind! [I’ve sat through speeches, lectures in school, “listening tours” by Lyin’ Ryan and many a sermon from many different faiths, and, very candidly, NEVER LISTENED.]

And, to ascertain just, exactly, the depth and breath of President Obama’s relationship with Bill Ayers, well, that goes far beyond exceptional, that’s actually GODLIKE…

"I promise to cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term". "If I can't get this done it will be a one-term proposition". [A little help from the tea-baggers would have helped.]

Please site the source of this quote.

Now, even. IF TRUE, this would be something that President Obama WANTED TO DO, and IF you know anything about government, he needs the consensus of the full CONGRESS to do that! He cannot issue an Executive Order on that.

Further, on the “one-term proposition” I can clearly see from the polls today that the GOP is well on its way to making President Obama a one term president… Yes, Keith, Rush & I are both doing Oxycodone and LSD… all day long…

"Fast & Furious" was started by that great intellectual GOP Bush… you really do NOT want to go there with your GOP barf points…

And, the rest is NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUES… well beyond your job description.

What exactly does this 'negotiated' NFL training program involve? I've never heard anyone talk about it before, and I can't seem to find any information about it on the internets...

@josh -

It wasn't Walker that "ripped our state apart over collective bargaining," it was the blue fisters and the fleabag 14 Dem senators that spent their time on our dime sightseeing in IL instead of doing their jobs and voting on the bill! The results of the recall election proved this!

"For the record, the officials are better because they are in unions."

Yeah, because the league obviously has no interest in having professionally trained refs, right? Why do you think that lockout ended?

Honestly, you need to wake up and get a clue!

@John Wilson -

It's you and your kind that can't seem to handle the TRUTH very well!

@Hoffa -
Do you own a TV? I believe you should reconsider your earlier comment about who is responsible for the "stupidest comment on this board!"

@Jon -

If Hoffa missed an interview with the real refs, you could have just provided a link.

@Hoffa -

I'm guessing that you saw the footage, if you didn't it's widely available for you. Also, If comments from retired NFL referees, nearly every football analyst, and the NFL itself indicating that the call was incorrect isn't enough for you then you are purely being argumentative. I'm not going to provide you with links, I know you are saavy enough to locate this information yourself. Gotta get back to work...

That's not what I heard from the news reports. According to the NFL, the call on the catch itself was correct, but there was a push-off foul that was not called against Tate...

@CowDung -
I stand corrected on the NFL statement, it was the missed offensive pass interference on that play that the NFL said should have been called, that would have given the Packers the victory. A victory could also been secured if the refs hadn't blown the previous pass interference call, or the roughing the passer call, all incorrectly going against GB. 8 sacks didn't help either! I think most reasonable people will agree that these replacement refs were way out of their league. OK, this time I'm really getting back to work...

@Jon -

This story isn't about armchair/fan refs, retired refs, football analysts, or the NFL administration/management (which, as CowDung has pointed out, you apparently have no idea as to what the league really said about the matter) - it's about the 'real' refs.

So, Hoffa is just wondering if anyone has interviewed the 'real' refs as to how they would have called the game. After all, the hoopla is premised upon the notion that the 'real' refs would have responded differently than the replacement 'scab' refs. So, wouldn't it make sense to ask the 'real' refs how they would have ruled had they actually been there calling the game themselves?

Honestly, this is just like how the media refuses to ask Obama any tough questions or call him out for refusing/failing to answer tough questions!

@Hoffa -
Please see my comment to CowDung correcting my statement.

I've seen 'real' refs blow calls as simple as the coin toss (Pittsburgh and Detroit going into overtime on Thanksgiving day in the late 1990's).

It's easy to say that one would have called it differently after the fact, but the reality is that even the 'real' refs make mistakes and bad calls when they are on the field...

@Tom -

What did Scott Walker 'flip' on exactly?

@king Free -

Bush didn't ruin America - Clinton and the average American consumer did! And Obama's working to further the damage done by Clinton.

And yes, Bush was asked tough questions, and while he did sometimes dodge, it's nothing compared to what we've seen from the promised "most transparent administration in our nation's history!"

The one tough question that Obama has been asked this entire campaign season, by Telemundo, he dodged.

Hey king Free--- if you hadn't noticed, it's not WORKING under Obama.
Clint Eastwood was right. We need to fire Obama, the sooner the better.

Keith Best -

Was it because Mr. Clinton said, “In Tampa, the Republican argument against the president's re-election was actually pretty simple — pretty snappy. It went something like this: We left him a total mess. He hasn't cleaned it up fast enough. So fire him and put us back in.”

SMFHO

@Lyin' John Wilson -

Now your quoting LYIN' Clinton! What is it with you and LIARS?!?!

Actually, it's quite ironic really, as Obama promised in 2008 to clean up the mess that Clinton gave us with NAFTA, giving China favored nation trading status, and deregulating banks. Of course, those were all Obama LIES!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF9gpvI2UfU

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Renegotiating-NAFTA-on-hold-Obama-says-3171311.php

Instead, Obama entered into even more unfavorable trade agreements since taking office:

http://www.americanjobsalliance.com/content/korea-fta-bad-deal-american-farmers-and-workers

http://www.citizenstrade.org/ctc/blog/2011/06/20/teamsters-steelworkers-blast-three-pending-ftas/

http://www.goiam.org/index.php/imail/latest/9034-the-panama-fta-is-unsafe-unequal-and-unfair

Obama said that he could clean up the mess in 3 years - remember all those broken promises/LIES that we discussed above?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCN5-ovvFL0

Obama = EPIC FAIL and MEGA LIAR!!!

@king Free -

You really need to to do your research better! Proof once again that those who vote Democratic are low information, non-thinking, brainwashed lemmings!

Romney, as a devout Mormon, is straight edge all the way, refusing to even drink coffee and caffeinated beverages, and never consuming alcohol, smoking tobacco, or using illegal narcotics.

Obama, in his early 20's, is the one who was constantly checking out whenever life got a little tough for him, snorting a few lines, dragging the crack pipe, taking a few bong hits, tripping on acid, and maybe even shootin a little heroin. Yep, our President is a real stand up guy and a great example for the children of our nation, isn't he?

Time to send Obama the junkie back to skid row and put some integrity back in the White House!

ROMNEY/RYAN/THOMPSON 2012!!!

JRH –

WILLARD MITTENS ROMNEY, born March 12, 1947, a 65-year old, and member [former Bishop] of the Mormon cult, was born into a millionaire family and had every socio-economic advantage anyone could possibly have. [Born advantaged, mentored every-step-of-the-way to succeed – started off 1-foot from the end zone]

Willard went to Paris as a missionary for his cult – being a Mormon missionary also disqualified him for the draft (nice how that worked out) – during the Vietnam War; however, that did not prevent him from attending protests, promoting the war and sending other people’s children to die and be forever crippled.

His fear of drinking, tobacco and ILLEGAL drugs – pharmaceutical drugs are, like Rush Limbaugh’s Oxycodone, OK – is a commandment from his cult, NOT a personal choice. The edict that he contribute 10% of his income to the cult – a tithing – is also dictated, and should NOT be confused with a personal, heartfelt, courageous conviction; it is also a great tax deduction, while simultaneously buying influence and support from the cult and amassing more personal wealth.

Succinctly, we have a very tightly wrapped, secretive-to-the-point-of paranoia, vulture capitalist, with absolutely no emotive capacity, who can only meaningfully relate to money and personal power…

ROMNEY 2666!

@Lyin' John Wilson -

Thanks for proving yourself to be the religious bigot we always knew you were!

Intolerance is the mantra of the left!!!

Can't defend against the FACT that our President is a former junkie, can you, so instead you spew religious hatred and attempt to shift the subject.

Typical!

JRH –

WILLARD...

Had every socio-economic advantage anyone could possibly have

Dodged the Vietnam War by going to Paris as a Mormon missionary

Protested for the Vietnam War

His secretiveness, [Paranoia] regarding EVERYTHING, not only his TAXES

Spent 25-years at Bain Capital – refuses to discuss these 25-years; YOU PEOPLE do NOT need to KNOW; perfected outsourcing, offshoring and bankrupting financially frail companies

Headed up the 2000 Olympics – refuses to talk about this too, and the many financial contracts he created, endorsed and profited from during this period

Governor of MA – refuses to discuss this too, as YOU FOLKS don’t need to KNOW.

We do know he created a mandated Healthcare system for the state, the model for the ACA, however, he refuses to talk about that too. When he left office – did not run for a 2nd term – the state of MA was 47th in job creation, several billion dollars in debt, and he purchased and subsequently destroyed all the computer hard drives used by his staff and all digital records.

He thinks almost half [47%] of America is in need of his particularily teaching of SELF-RESPONSIBILITY.

Even his lovely wife, Ann, is OPENLY, on TV today, questioning his mental stability, should he –think REAL miracle here – be elected…

Even the folks who compiled the DSM-IV cannot find an appropriate category for WILLARD, as his psychopathology overlaps into so many areas… I’m happy that he has Hoffa’s support…

Now we can add "Mormon cult" to the long list of Wilsonisms:

"An “unborn child” is totally disingenuous and an obvious attempt to bestow attributes – typical emotional argument – upon a biological organism that they do not have. Your “unborn child” is, in fact, a fetus"
"As I see it, an ovum/fetus has no RIGHT TO LIFE"
"the RED, COMMUNIST MOAMMAR WALKER PARTY "
"the RED, COMMUNIST REPUBLICAN PARTY"
"In today’s America if Slavery was put to a popular vote, it would pass"

This guy is an original !

@Lyin' John Wilson -

Once again, shifting the subject to avoid discussing Obama's prior status as a junkie!

Not to mention grossly LYING about Romney.

Typical of the left - no one is fooled by your Alinsky tactics!

@king Free -

So Mormons are "a bunch of brain washed idiots," but Obama, as a Christian, isn't a "brain washed idiot" for believing that some guy named Jesus walked on water, healed the sick, turned water into wine, etc???

Yeah, you're real consistent all right!

@king Free -

WOW - you're defending a man, Obama, that you apparently know nothing about!

In Obama's own self authored book, 'Dreams of My Father,' he admits to abusing drugs up through his mid twenties when ever life got a little too tough for him to handle.

Here's a liberal source for you, wherein Michelle is asked to explain her husband's drug habits/abuse:

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/05/michelle-obama-on-presidents-drug-use-he-was-like-124781.html

So, now Romney's not only a coke head, but he's also a pedophile, eh? Where's your proof?

You're nothing but a bigoted HACK!!! Go back to the Daily Kos where you belong!

Coming from the man who defended Obama while knowing nothing about him and making up libelous LIES about Mitt Romney. Yeah, you're real credible all right - NOT!!!

Now be a good little liberal and go back to the Daily Kos where all the other lemmings congregate!

@King Free...I think you have a lot of things wrong about Romney just because he is a Mormon. Being a Mormon is not relevant to whether he is qualified to be elected president. I think how Romney is characterized as a "straight edge" is correct. In my experience of living in Utah amongst Mormons, Romney is consistent with his religion.

As far as Obama's drug use, he has freely admitted it and it isn't an issue. Bush's drug and alcohol use is also a matter of public record and it isn't an issue either. Only one thing comes out of a pissin' contest, you get wet!

While I admire you for calling out Mr Kng Free ( who is this guy?), simple question for you, Lyle. Is there anywhere you haven't lived? Any job you haven't worked? Any subject you don't consider yourself an expert? You're kinda like the guy who's always gotta one up everyone,, always been everywhere and done every thing better, and always knows more than anyone else. This persona you love to portray on Patch is getting old. Do your blogs feed your ego? Does anyone care?

Lyle Ruble –

I'm interested in what YOU mean by "straight edge" as I have a fairly clear idea what I think that is, but we may not be on the same page here.

I’m also interested in the many things that King Free has wrong about Romney, as I can’t find any. So, please inform me regarding just what these MANY THINGS are as I am always interested in an increase in FACTS and KNOWLEDGE.

I listed many different items regarding WILLARD, including the fact that he was a Mormon [former Bishop] and some of the things his RELIGION is far more responsible for in his PERSONAL BEHAVIOR, rather than any great character or positive social/personality traits. I did NOT attack his religion; I merely mentioned that, along with his wealth, draft dodging, etc.

Now, if YOU, like JRH want to read bigot into that, well, that's on you...

Further, the Constitution forbids a religious TEST to run for P or VP and other political offices, as well; however, in the real world, that place where we eat, breathe, talk and work, there certainly is a religious TEST!

Can you even conceive of an atheist or agnostic becoming P on November 6, 2012?

Now, I really don’t care to get wet here, I am merely requesting information, and perhaps, your opinion… Hoffa is the dude addicted to golden showers…

Wow, you know little ol' Lyle is having a bad day when even Wilson is going after him. Almost feel sorry for Lyle. Almost

Right on Lyle! Respect is earned...and you have earned your share many times.

@John Wilson....Let me clarify something about the faithful LDS; they are inculcated into the belief and cultural system from birth. To observe the "Word of Wisdom" is second nature to them. Some people call it brainwashing, but that is their system. Even so it still takes a conscious choice to observe them.

I agree that Mitt was a Mormon Bishop, but he was more; he was also a Stake President and had all of the wards within his stake under his control. I believe that he was the State Mission President.

Not only did Mitt avoid the draft while on his mission, but on his return he spent 3 years at BYU and avoided the draft with a school deferment.

He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and the way has been greased for him.

I don't think people outside his family, closet friends and the church leadership know very much about how the man operates. I agree he's highly secretive and if he's elected president we can expect a not very transparent administration.

Hey Lyle, in case you haven't figured it out yet, Wilson also considered Judaism a cult that "pounds religious rubbish down your throat" too. But keep defending him.

Wilson, when on my knees tonite, I will say a quiet prayer in your behave. Truly. Doesn't matter if you appreciate it or mock it, my God is a forgiving amd loving God. Now feel free to continue your hating. You're very good at it,

Let us all never forget what type of a man Wilson is. Repeating my post last week citing the following Wison post:

"An “unborn child” is totally disingenuous and an obvious attempt to bestow attributes – typical emotional argument – upon a biological organism that they do not have. Your “unborn child” is, in fact, a fetus"

for all of us, let's hope this guy isn't a father,