MythBusters #2: "God-Myths"
People view God differently depending on the region of the country they are from.
As we continue our Mythbuster series, I want to thank everyone who made comments both in support of, and disagreement with, the article last week. By and large there was vigourous debate, and if nothing else, it made each one consider where they stand on their perception of who God is.
I seems that a number of people are turned off by God and religion for any number of reasons. A survey done by USA Today a few years ago tracked American's perception of God. They found that those perceptions can be based on many things including culture, upbringing, religious background, traditions, and geographic location. It was interesting to note that people’s view of God actually varied from region to region, but was generally consistent within that region.
Please understand they're not saying EVERYONE in a particular region thinks a certain way, only that there was a consistent view of God that pervaded that area. As concerns Christianity, here are a few of the findings:
#1 God is Angry – predominant viewpoint in the south
People growing up in the Bible Belt, generally heard preaching about what was wrong with them. It reminds me of the scene with Dorothy, the Scarecrow, Tin Man, and Cowardly Lion shaking in fear as they were being yelled at by the Wizard of Oz.
God does have emotions, and though He does exhibit anger at times, the Bible tells us in Micah 7:18 the He delights in forgiveness. "Where is another God like you who pardons the guilt of the remnant, overlooking the sins of His special people? You will not stay angry with your people forever, because you delight in showing unfailing love. Once again you will have compassion on us."
We're also told in Psalm 103:8 that: "The Lord is compassionate and merciful, slow to get angry and filled with unfailing love."
Angry? Sometimes. Merciful? His mercies are new every morning...even this morning.
People in the West have a different view of God. They’re more carefree and individualistic. The tend to have an “I’m on my own” mentality…
#2 God is Distant – predominant viewpoint out west
In reality, the Bible tells us God is…and that He’s placed purpose and destiny in each of our hearts. Acts 17:26, 27 says:
"From one man He created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand when they should rise and fall, and He determined their boudaries. His purpose was for the nations to seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward Him and find HIm - though He is not far from any one of us."
You’re not here by accident! You’re here because God has purposed for you to be here! Luke 12 in the Message Bibles says this: "What's the price of two or three pet canaries? Some loose change, right? But God never overlooks a single one. And he pays even greater attention to you, down to the last detail - even numbering the hairs on your head! God’s involved in your life…even if you weren’t aware of it!
#3 God is Critical – predominant viewpoint in the northeast
In the larger cosmopolitian cities of the northeast, life is fast paced, and people tend to be a bit tougher and sometimes more cynical and less trusting. To them, God is not mad, or distant… He's just critical!
There's a tendency to read the Bible as just a book of rules – all about do’s and don’ts, will's and won'ts. Get your act together, then you’ll get to God! Ephesians 2:8, 9 busts that myth.
In reality, it's actually reversed… Get to God, then you’ll get your act together!
"God saved you by His grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it." Salvation is a free gift - we can't earn it and we certainly don't deserve it. God doesn't have to point out our faults, we live with ourselves every day and are well aware of them. He just wants to point us to the one who is fault-less, Jesus Christ.
So what about our region - the midwest? This one is actually partially true.
#4 God is Benevolent – predominantly embraced by our region
It's partially true, because God is benevolent, but midwesterners tend to take it too far.
The attitude in the midwest tends to be this:
“Do the best you can, God will see your effort, and in the end He’ll circumvent justice, and schmooz you into heaven by giving you a get-out-of-jail-free card."
It's fueled by logic that says it's just not reasonable for an all-loving God to send people to an eternal hell. My question is this:
Would we apply the same logic to a just judge that has standing before him/her, a person that has been convicted of serious crimes, and now needs to be sentenced?
If a just judge would do what is right and fair, how much more God, who is just in all His ways?
The Bible tells us in Romans 6:23 that the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus…
God who is all-loving I'm sure would rather not punish sin, but because He is also completely just, He must do so. To solve our dilema, His Son Jesus Christ willingly came and took the penalty for your sins and mine which is death, and now offers us forgiveness and eternal life with Him in exchange.
So…where are you on your spiritual journey? Are you in the north, south, east, or west?
I’ve busted some common myths with scriptures, but maybe you’re not convinced…test it yourself. Mythbusters always find out for themselves.
Here are three ways you can know God's intentions for sure:
1) Understand that God’s done His part, you're part is to come to Him in an attitude of faith. "Anyone who wants to come to Him must believe that God exists and that He rewards those who sincerely seek Him." Hebrews 11:6
2) Your need to accept God on His terms, through His Son Jesus.
The beloved physician Luke tells us in 17:33 that: "If you grasp and cling to life on your terms, you'll lose it, but if you let that life go, you'll get life on God's terms."
3) You need to believe that He is for you, and not against you.
The prophet Jeremiah 29 says: "For I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. "They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope."
Lyle Ruble
10:50 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
@Pastor Mike Frie...In your attempt to bust G-d myths you are perpetuating more myths. Something that has always bothered me about Christian theology is the notion of reward and punishment. As a non Christian, the reason for living a moral and righteous life is not for any reward in either this life or the next or to avoid punishment; but it is simply the right thing to do. In the Tenach there is no promise of life after death; for the grave awaits us all, of dust we are made and dust we shall become. Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Moses all entered the grave just as all men. The only man who did not die is Elijah who was carried off in a winged chariot.
To attempt to understand the nature of G-d is a worthless pursuit. One cannot know the unknowable. You should not speak of that which you don't know but only believe you know.
Michael Ray
1:31 pm on Monday, June 13, 2011
Out of many passages, I'll mention Psalms 16:10-11, "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou wilt show me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore." Evermore...sounds like eternity.
Also, as evidenced by the Pharisees & Sadducees in Jesus' time, there was a split in Judaism as to whether the soul died with the body. People still debate this topic, but the New Testament is perfectly clear. Now as a non-Christian, you can overlook it, but the idea is obviously there throughout both Testaments.
Lastly, I would add that I have never thought of heaven as a reward. The very idea that I could "earn" a spot in line is contrary to the very idea of grace. Christ did something for me by keeping the law and dying for me and coming back from death. All I do is accept it as truth. It's a choice to believe. Now for those who choose not to believe it, who say plainly that God had no place in their life, will live in eternity without Him. That's a choice--not a punishment. Now will it be a pleasant experience? Absolutely not. But you chose it. You asked God to leave you alone. You asked to go to hell.
Now you can live a moral life and that is good, but Christianity asks that you give credit to the one who created you and enabled you to do good to begin with. "Moral" religions speak of reward and punishment. With Christ, it's simply grace.
Lyle Ruble
2:30 pm on Monday, June 13, 2011
@Michael Ray...Quoting Psalms 16:10-11,"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell:" The definition of hell is Greek and there is no equivalent in Hebrew or Jewish thought or teachings. In this case hell is in reference to shoel, the grave. This is do to a mistranslation. The Pharisees & Sadducees were essentially religious political parties. The Pharisees were scribes and interpreters of the law (forerunners of rabbinic Judaism) and the Sadducees were the Temple Priests and carried out the law in reference to the Temple Cult. Traditional Judaism regards the soul as entering the body at birth and leaving at death, but this is in reference to the animal soul, Nefesh or soul of life. This is non cognitive and cognition is the Ruach.
The "grace" that you speak of is a concept first introduced by Martin Luther and developed by Jon Calvin. Simply put, before the creation of humanity; G-d choose who would be saved and they were drawn to G-d and Christ through predestination. No matter how many good works done by someone, could those not in a state of grace be part of the elect and would be condemned to hell. The idea of choice was introduced by the Dutch Calvinists. Eternal reward and eternal avoidance of punishment have and always will be a basic tenant of Christianity. The idea of eternal reward was basic to people whose lives were miserable and would remain so from birth to death.
David Keup
5:51 pm on Monday, June 13, 2011
@Lyle Ruble....I believe the Holy Scriptures to be the only trusted source for what God wants all generations to know and grow in wisdom in -- not what humans invent and make up.
Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors. (The remaining 500 or so reach into the future and may be seen unfolding as days go by.) Since the probability for any one of these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance averages less than one in ten (figured very conservatively) and since the prophecies are for the most part independent of one another, the odds for all these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance without error is less than one in 102000 (that is 1 with 2000 zeros written after it)!
God is not the only one, however, who uses forecasts of future events to get people's attention. Satan does, too. Through clairvoyants (such as Jeanne Dixon and Edgar Cayce), mediums, spiritists, and others, come remarkable predictions, though rarely with more than about 60 percent accuracy, never with total accuracy. Messages from Satan, furthermore, fail to match the detail of Bible prophecies, nor do they include a call to repentance. The acid test for identifying a prophet of God is recorded by Moses in Deuteronomy 18:21-22. There is no room for error.
Lyle Ruble
6:30 pm on Monday, June 13, 2011
@David Kemp...You began your post with "I believe". Your belief does not make it true or false. The fact that you accept it doesn't add veracity to it. To claim that prophecies have been fulfilled without reference suggests an emptiness to your suppositions. From the book of Isaiah along with the book of Daniel many have derived prophecies concerning a messiah. Understanding the true intent of prophecy is not easy and can easily be misconstrued.
You bring up Satan and your concept is that he's deceiver whereas Satan's true role is that of a prosecutor. Satan doesn't appear scripturallyuntil the New Testament and his role had completely changed from what is found in the book of Job. We know that concepts and writings changed over time and the Hebrew bible wasn't canonized until the 3rd century CE and the Christian bible wasn't canonized until the 4th century CE. Many writings were excluded from both volumes, but still existed. Decisions as to what would be in and what would be left out was decided by men, thus they were subject to fallibility.
Pastor Mike Frie
8:36 pm on Tuesday, June 14, 2011
@Lyle Ruble
Shalom Lyle!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. After reading your response to me concerning the article (10:50pm Sunday, June 12th), I am curious concerning your beliefs and view of God. Some of the statements you’ve made require a belief system, and are definitely rooted in traditions. I’ve shared with you my approach to interpreting the Scriptures (PaRDeS), and I’ve openly shared my belief that Jesus (Yeshua), is Messiah for both the Jew and Gentile as well. That being said, I’d like to understand more about your beliefs and your approach to the Scriptures.
1) Hyphenating G-d’s name, is this out of reverence or honoring tradition?
2) //As a non- Christian, the reason for living a moral and righteous life is not for any reward in either this life or the next or to avoid punishment; but it is simply the right thing to do.// Is this your personal view, or a generally held philosophy of life in your congregation? By what or whose standards do you personally determine what is righteous and what is moral?
Pastor Mike Frie
8:39 pm on Tuesday, June 14, 2011
@Lyle Ruble con't
And concerning these comments:
3) //In the Tenach there is no promise of life after death; for the grave awaits us all, of dust we are made and dust we shall become. Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Moses all entered the grave just as all men.// I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. I’ll defer to Jesus, when asked a question about the reality of an afterlife by those who held your view. He said: “But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, “I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” God is not the God the dead, but of the living.” Exodus 3:6; Matthew 22:31-32
4) //To attempt to understand the nature of G-d is a worthless pursuit. One cannot know the unknowable.// I agree, to attempt to understand an unknowable god is indeed a worthless pursuit. But that is not the God of the Tenach. The Lord tells us this through Jeremiah the prophet in Jer. 31:35: “No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother saying, “Know the Lord,” for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” He also commands us to: “Be still, and know that I am God.”
Pastor Mike Frie
8:44 pm on Tuesday, June 14, 2011
@Lyle Ruble con't
5) //You should not speak of that which you don't know but only believe you know//
I have ever only spoken of Him whom I both know and believe. YHWH, YHWH EL (Exodus 34:6-7)
Whom do you believe you know? Do you serve the God of the Torah, the Writings, and the Prophets, or someone else?
Respectfully Submitted,
Pastor Mike Frie
Lyle Ruble
10:50 am on Thursday, June 16, 2011
@Pastor Frie…Thank you for request for clarification of my beliefs and thinking. I don’t know how much I can add, but I will attempt to answer your questions. As you are probably aware, Judaism is without dogma, creed or doctrine. It is the responsibility of each Jew to study, think and decide for themselves the meanings of the Torah, Tenach, Talmud, Mishnah and Zohar, along with scholars and rabbis who have preceded us. This is a lifelong process which is hoped will lead to increased levels of enlightenment, understanding and wisdom. A statement of my positions are mine alone and do not represent other Jews or Judaism in general. Also, you must understand that I am not a rabbi or a professional scholar. My interest is an avocation and I teach Jewish youth courses in comparative religion, Jewish history and Jewish morality and ethics.
I believe that what appears in the Torah is a series of allegories and metaphors written at a time when the general understanding was better known. The Torah is “the path to the target” and is Judaism’s constitution. It sets forth the values, morals and ethics by which we are to personally live and to maintain a harmonious community. My understanding of a Supreme Being has changed over time. (continued)
Lyle Ruble
10:51 am on Thursday, June 16, 2011
(continued) The G-d of my childhood is different from the G-d of my youth, my middle years and now that I have entered the end of my life; G-d holds yet another meeting. I do not pretend to understand that which is G-d and accept the responsibility for my actions. I hyphenate, when writing, G-d out of both tradition and respect.
The creation narrative is clearly an allegory outlining the physical process of the universe and the rise of a cognitive humanity. With the rise of humanity we have become co-creators with G-d. Whether what we create bodes well or ill for humanity and the rest of creation is our responsibility. Our actions or lack of actions have consequences. This is why so many Jews are committed to the notion of Tikkun Olam, “healing of the world”. We are strong advocates to bringing justice where social injustice occurs.
Lyle Ruble
10:52 am on Thursday, June 16, 2011
(continued) My conclusion to the questions concerning life after death is that the grave is where we all will end up and I don’t believe in an afterlife. Therefore, I live my life as if it will end in the grave and I must live each day morally and ethically, treating others as I would want myself to be treated. (Hillel) Judaism and generally accepted views on life after death are as varied as there are Jews. Some believe in life after death, some don’t, some believe in the purifying of the soul to be reborn, however, nearly all Jews reject the concept of a hell as purported by Christian theology.
One issue that is divisive for Jews is the role of a coming messiah. There are a number of Jews, myself included, that reject the notion and need for a messiah. On the other hand there are a number of Jews who are committed to the coming of a messiah.
Lyle Ruble
10:53 am on Thursday, June 16, 2011
(continued) Throughout Jewish history a redeemer or anointed one has been looked to as a mechanism to rescue G-d’s people. Although Moses wasn’t a messiah, he did fulfill the criteria of redeemer. Saul was the first anointed one followed by David, followed by Solomon, etc. but did not fulfill the criterion of redeemer. From my study the modern concept of messiah began to creep into Judaism during the Babylonian and Persian Diaspora. From this input a whole new form of Judaism was created which I call Messianic Judaism. It is no coincidence that when Jews are under stress, that they look to an outside entity to rescue them. The lesson to be learned by Jews is that the last 3000 years has not brought a supernatural entity to redeem and rescue us; we must do the job ourselves. In the narrative that the tribes wanted a king just as other peoples, has resulted in disaster for the people of the covenant. It was no accident that when the nation of Israel was recreated that we did not go to a theocratic monarchy; creating a social democracy instead. Judaism has had to remain flexible to survive. We have adapted ourselves to the outside world, while remaining true to the covenant at Sinai.
Lyle Ruble
10:54 am on Thursday, June 16, 2011
(continued) From my studies, what we call Christianity is an outgrowth of a number of sources present from the 2nd century BCE. The Jewish roots included two main streams of thought; Messianic Judaism and Apocalyptic Judaism. This provided the foundation for this Jewish fringe group. The Jesus Movement did not gain much of a following until Paul became involved and changed the requirements of who could join the movement; convert to Judaism first and then join the group. Saul was a member of the Jewish Greek Diaspora and was well acquainted with those who considered themselves as the Friends of Judaism. He understood that he would not be successful until the requirement for circumcision was dropped, waiver of the Jewish dietary laws and other forms of Halakah that would prevent practical living outside of Judea. This is the beginning and most significant schism that occurred between the mother religion of Judaism and the emerging daughter religion of Christianity. From that moment on we have taken separate paths and it is difficult to find much Jewish influence in Christianity. The heavy reliance on the Christian covenant as outlined in Christian canonized scriptures has driven us even further apart. Christianity’s general historic hatred for Jews, as Christ killers, has been the justification for Christianity’s inhuman and genocidal treatment of my people.
Lyle Ruble
10:56 am on Thursday, June 16, 2011
(conclusion) Therefore, I view Christianity as a danger to all of us who do not follow it and in particular fundamentalism.
If you would like to continue this conversation in person, I would be open to that.
Best regards,
Lyle
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