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Washington Report

Disagreement Can and Should Be Respectful

Sensenbrenner considers Town Hall Meetings an important part of his service

 

This is the latest in a series of regular columns from U.S. Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner.

Last year, a media outlet dubbed me the “Town Hall King” because I hold more Town Hall Meetings than any other Congressman or Senator.  While the title is amusing, I take my Town Hall Meetings very seriously and consider them one of the most important duties I perform. 

Town Hall Meetings allow residents the opportunity to ask questions, share the issues on their mind and get help with a federal agency, which is why I think it’s important to hold these meetings on a regular basis.  As standing practice, I invite local elected representatives to join me at these meetings as a resource for folks who have questions or concerns about state issues.

I truly believe that a civic-minded public is a cornerstone of a working democracy.  I say this with the caveat that for democracy to truly work, as people voice their opinion, share their thoughts, and vote, civility must prevail. 

For the first time ever, earlier this month in Wauwatosa I adjourned a Town Hall Meeting early because civility left the room.  Despite repeated requests to show respect to speakers, other attendees, and library patrons, the room became chaotic.  After 30 minutes of interruptions, and the noticeably growing unease of some people in the room, I was concerned someone might either be hurt or property would be damaged.  It was unfortunate that those who came to the meeting and patiently waited to voice their opinion were unable to do so.     

Government and politics can often make emotions and passions run high, however in my many years of holding these meetings I have always found the vast majority of people attending these meetings to be able to disagree without being disagreeable — to express their opinion while still respecting the counter opinion of someone else.  In fact, even during last year’s intense health care debate we still had a respectful discourse at all my meetings.

There are a host of critical issues challenging our state and nation right now, and we’re not all going to agree on the best way to solve these challenges.  But we can no longer kick the can farther down the road if we want our state and nation to become prosperous again — we need to talk these problems out,  make a decision and move forward on that decision. 

My new schedule of upcoming Town Hall Meetings will be posted in the near future, and I welcome all residents to these meetings.  And those individuals who take the time to attend a meeting have my commitment that I will continue to do my best to ensure they are safe and hear a civil discourse in what I always hope are productive and informative meetings.  We can disagree, but I hope that we can do so in a respectful manner.    

About this column: U.S. Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner represents the 5th Congressional District, which includes most communities in Ozaukee, Milwaukee, Jefferson, Washington and Waukesha counties. Related Topics: Jim Sensenbrenner and town hall meetings

Lyle Ruble

10:26 am on Sunday, March 20, 2011

For the first time the Congressman has had to face an organized opposition. He had better be prepared to reap what he has sown. Every since Barrett lost his district and the Congressman's district was increased to include the North Shore, he has had a pass because those opposing him did not come out to the town meetings. That's all changed now and he will see what the opposition really looks like.

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A. J. Kunz

2:29 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011

Our very wealthy congressman, F. James Senenbrenner,has spent his entire career taking care of the wealthy at the expense of the middle class. His ego centered comments are often disrespectful of those who do not agree with him. His "Town Hall Meetings" have been campaigning and fund raising, not legitimate listening sessions. John Boehner, Jim Sensenbrenner and their ilk have never been critical of vocal opponents of the President and Democratic office holders at their town hall meetings. Listen up Jim . . .times are a changing and not necessarily for the better for the rich and powerful.

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Bewildered

3:32 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011

If you don't reuse ALL politicians hold "town meeting" for campaigning and fundraising, you are seriously naive. And to critic politicians for being wealthy, come on. How bout Sen. Kohl, Gore, Kerry or Bush. They all were/are. Goes with the territory. The big news would be a politician who isn't wealthy. Reality check needed here.

Bewildered

3:34 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011

iPhone typing. Opening line "if you don't think ALL"

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RAK

1:05 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Right on bewildered, to not acknowledge the money issue on both sides is purely hypocritical! In fact, I might be willing to bet that money bags may be more prevalent on the Democrats side! Keep up the good responses, Bewildered.

Karen

4:57 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011

Sensenbrenner is a tool of the corporate elite who doesn't give a hoot about anybody's opinion if it doesn't agree with his. Very unlike what Obama has been doing by moving to the center and trying to represent everyone. Sensenbrenner has his agenda and that is all he cares about. I agree it is time for him to leave. I saw a video of that town hall meeting he was talking about and the only one I saw being disrespectful and paternalistic was Sensenbrenner. AJ and Lyle are right, he better get used to people showing up and being upset and voicing it. It is time people started standing up to the lack of democracy going on in this country. I am not in the union or have a friend in the union and being bullied by union thugs I am just a very concerned citizen who doesn't like what is going in our country for a lot of reasons and I am not going to let the corporate elite take away my voice.
And that goes for members of our government on both sides of the fence. They are all pretty much owned by the lobbyists who give them money.

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Lyle Ruble

5:02 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011

Karen, You go girl! I've got your back.

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RAK

1:24 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Karen, Obama towards the center, really, guess I've missed something. Oh yes, actions speak louder than words. By the way, in case you may not have noticed most politicians have an agenda and usually that's all they care about. I can certainly attest personally to that for ex-senator Feingold. Good point about both sides, as for corporate elite, the Repubs don't have the corner on that market, check it out.

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Karen

4:30 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

I HAVE checked it out RAK unceasingly. That is WHY I made the comment about BOTH sides being owned byt the corporate elites. So why don't we stop playing one ups mans ship here and say that we both agree that both sides have their agendas and are paid for by the corporate elite in this country who don't care about any of us just about making money. You may not have heard that many Dems are very upset with Obama for giving away too much and moving to the center. So be it. He's just playing the game too. The thing is I have definitely seen more good being done for the poor and less well off by the Dems and so I give them credit for that. Not everyone has the same opportunitys and we have to work to make the playing field more fair.

Lyle Ruble

6:42 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Bewildered, Well old friend you are right about George Soros supporting Move On, but there is a critical difference; Soros isn't doing it for financial gain. His focus is on social justice. Whereas the Koch Bros. are definitely in it for the financial gain. As far as using town hall meetings as fund raising events, it is basically wrong to do so. They then become nothing more than a meeting of the faithful. This is precisely why we need public financing of campaigns.

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RAK

1:43 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Lyle, Really, Soros is not in it for financial gain. I doubt it. After all, I haven't heard of him giving his money away like Bill Gates or Warren Buffet. Oh, and what about the persecution of members of his own Jewish background he willingly participated in during World War II, that seems bothersome. Lyle, maybe you can educate me, just what is the definition of social justice. I agree with limited public financing so the little less financially endowed could run for office. I don't think that only the rich have a corner on ideas and solutions or critical thinking! Are the vast donations that unions make to politicians not for eventual financial gain too?

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Lyle Ruble

2:56 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

RAK,
Soros isn't in it for fiscal gain. most of his charitable work prior to 2003 was spent outside the U.S. He became actively involved with attempting to unseat George W. Bush in the 2004 election. He's funded a number of liberal causes every since. Since 1979 he has donated approximately $8.0 billion to a number of different projects including openness in the Eastern European Countries. As far as his antisemitism, he has been taken out of context for his criticism of Israel's policies and the American Jewish lobby. He is concerned with Israel's denial of humane rights to non-Jews. As a member of the Milwaukee Jewish Community, I share many of his concerns as well do many liberal Israelis. However, I don't speak for the Jewish Community and it is my own personal opinion. Social justice is defined as an environment that provides for equal opportunity and a focus on Human Rights. finally, union contributions are for eventual financial gain and to maintain a balance of power between workers and business.

Michael Schwister

7:09 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Please. Guys. You are hurting my feelings with all this union thug business. I worked union for 40 years in the private sector and have not once met a union thug. Although I have had more than my share of differences with representation that character assassination is right out of the Libertarian handbook.

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Michael Schwister

7:38 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

I have written several letters to Sensenbrenner. If you could see the response's I received you could only come to the conclusion that Jim is CLUELESS. At least I have received responses from him. Not so with Ron Johnson.

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RAK

1:47 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Sounds like at least you got a reply from Sensenbrenner, better than the canned or no response for me from Kohl! Explain Jim's cluelessness for me.

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Karen

4:00 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

I agree Michael. Sensenbrenner's responses are definitely canned too. He just reiterates his talking points and says....I know we don't agree but thank you for contacting me. Really??? I tear the letter up and think, why did I waste my time. He is only here to represent one side of his base. RAK I agree I don't think I usually hear from Kohl either unless I get an email from him cause I signed up on his website......and nothing from Ron. I even forget he is our "Senator". Sometimes when I hear the name, Ron Johnson, I think...who is that?

Jenny Heyden

7:54 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

I don't see a byline on this article. Did Jim Sensenbrenner write this?

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Lyle Ruble

8:17 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Jenny, It was written by Congressman Sensenbrenner.

Karen Morris-Cetin

8:13 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

I attended my 1st town hall meeting with Sen, Sensenbrenner on2/5/11. It was a dissapointment. We had to write out our
question(s) and supply our name and address. There were about 20 persons there . No open discussion was allowed. Last
Thursday 3/17/11. I participated in a Town Hall meeting with Sen. Chris Larson and Rep. Jon Richards. What a difference! There were about 150-200 people in attendance. A power point on the budget bill was given; anyone could speak by raising a
hand and you were given a portable microphone so all could hear your question or comment. I felt I was being listened to
and not lectured. I feel that Sen Sensenbrenner listens to only a certain segment of his constituency and doesn't even try to persuade others; he just ignores them.
KM-C Shorewood

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Lyle Ruble

8:20 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Karen, Jim Sensenbrenner is not a Senator but a US Congressman representing the 5th Congressional District. No big deal, your message came through loud and clear; but I thought I had better let you know since there are people who regularly post that will attempt to "eat your lunch" over it.

Michael Schwister

8:30 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Karen, You have expressed my sentiments as well.

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Karen Morris-Cetin

8:31 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Lyle, Thanks. As a 71 yr old "union thug" I have brain cramps every now and then. I shouldn't be writing comment B-4 my
second cup of coffee, Yes, I believe we have only 2 Senators: Kohl and Johnson. (Perhaps, I was sub-consciously deleting Johnson!)
KM-C Shorewood

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Lyle Ruble

9:02 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

KM-C Shorewood, Don't feel you are alone. I have to have at least three cups of delicious brew before my heart starts beating let alone thinking. As older "commie-pinkos", I always think that someday I will not have to remain politically involved, but each new generation must educated to become worthy of being a mensch. If you look at the current crop of Libertarians, they have not seen what we have seen or walked a mile in our shoes. They haven't had the opportunity to grieve for JFK, walk with MLK and Bobby Kennedy, resist an unjust war and do for others without any desire for something in return except for social justice. Since Reagan took over and corrupted the minds of the young, there has been a dramatic polarization and strengthening of the pursuit of money and power. They don't understand that there are things that must be done just because it's the right thing to do. It is the right thing to do to help those who can't help themselves, to eliminate excessive suffering, to educate, to promote the general welfare and insure all have equal opportunity. I too would like to delete Johnson from my mind, but it is not possible. Do you think if in a year we can recall Walker that we might be able to talk Russ Feingold into running for governor?

Anne

9:02 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Representative Sensenbrenner's characterization of "lack of civility" at that Tosa meeting could also be described as "passionate outrage" at what is happening here in our state. Perhaps he should come home more frequently and note the lack of civility on the part of those who "govern" us.

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Lyle Ruble

9:12 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Anne, He can't come home. He's busy patrolling the fence in the Southwest U.S. looking for illegals crossing over to have anchor babies. We are better off if he stays away. Better yet maybe he will retire to Arizona and supervise the racial profiling of anyone who doesn't look and speak like him. He certainly has the income from his GOVERNMENT PENSION and his family's wealth. I consider him to be one of those people who received an education but choose not to use it.

Nate

9:52 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Sensenbrenner is a corporate goon/stooge.

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Nate

9:53 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Corporations outsource jobs; teachers create jobs.

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Nate

10:12 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Democrats represent the middle class; republicans represent the middle finger. Gold.

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RAK

1:50 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Dave, your vulgarity is uncalled for and doesn't belong on this forum.

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Nate

3:09 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Actually, what's vulgar and doesn't belong in this country is taking my tax money away from my kid's school and giving it out as corporate welfare.

Nate

10:27 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Over the past 30-odd years, the Democrats have moved to the right, and the Republicans have moved into a mental hospital. --Bill Maher

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Karen

11:28 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Right on Dave! You have got it right. Great comments.

Tom McMahon

11:13 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

As we can see clearly here, Republicans are the party of Respectful Disagreement, the Democrats the party of insults, threats, and intimidation.

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Karen

11:29 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Look in the mirror Tom.

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Lyle Ruble

11:33 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Tom, I wish that were the case. I have only to remind you of the Tea Party and there viral dialogues. More than once I have seen people who oppose the Darling recall "flip off" the petitioners. Not all of us lefties are disrespectful and I value the opinions of those who oppose my position.

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Karen

12:18 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Another great example of Republican civility happening at the HIGHEST level.......Judge Prosser, calling Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson, a "BITCH" and then telling her he was going to ruin her. Now that's civility.
I also fear for this country. We really lack the ability to be honest about so much of what is happening.

Caryl Sewell

11:14 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Talk about civility. Isn't Sensenbrenner the one who took his gavel and turned out the lights while other committee members were trying to have a discussion?

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Michael Schwister

11:24 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Tom,The Libertarian Party(republicans) rely on ignorance and propaganda to further their agenda. They control what most of us think. Any rational person who took it upon themselves to search out information not provided to you by corporate media would find it astounding how a few hundred individuals in this country dominate every aspect of our society. I rarely get fact based argument from republicans. I get "the middle finger" on exit with no good argument. How has their agenda improved your life? I am curious.

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Bob McBride

11:44 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

Michael,

For years now each side of the argument has lamented the supposed influence of "corporate" or "mainstream" media. Since you brought it up this time, I'd like you to do the following:

Identify several sources you consider "corporate" (3-5 examples should suffice).

Identify several sources you consider non-partisan, unbiased, non-"corporate" (again 3-5 sources should work).

I'd like to put one other restriction on it as well. For instance, if you are going to identify general news gathering organizations in one case, then I'd like you to compare them to similar types of organizations in the other. Sort of an "apples to apples" comparison, if you will.

Thanks.

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Lyle Ruble

2:19 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Michael,... You have to be careful with Bob,he is setting a trap for you, He knows that most contributions by corporations go through PACs and only the executives of such organizations directly contribute. He also knows that no contributions are non partisan. The only non partisan contributions to candidates from government campaign financing. Finally, almost all news sources have a slant. The only print newspaper that is non partisan is the Christian Science Monitor. NPR, WPR and PBS are generally good sources and the BBC is excellent for world news. Major media groups are not to be trusted since they are only interested in their "bottom lines". To keep informed it requires reading, listening and watching many media sources keeping in mind their biases. You have to research both sides. Bob can argue as well as anyone supporting his positions. Just a warning!

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Bob McBride

3:46 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Lyle,

It's hardly a trap and I honestly don't think you need to be protecting anyone here.

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Lyle Ruble

3:58 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Bob,
Just acknowledging your cleverness. You argue well and people that make statements that are not well thought out can be trapped by their positions. Admittedly you do it very well.

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Bob McBride

4:09 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

I guess I gotta say to you the same thing I said to Michael about viewers of 'corporate media". Don't assume the other guy hasn't got the same ability to read and understand that you do.

I'm honestly just fascinated about how we've come to believe that someone's always behind the curtain pulling the strings.

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Lyle Ruble

4:16 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Bob,
We've all seen the "Wizard of Oz" and have learned not to trust the obvious because it can be so easily manipulated. A great many people make a very good living from spinning the facts and message to their own benefit.

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Bob McBride

4:31 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Are any of them fooling you, Lyle?

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Lyle Ruble

4:42 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Bob,
Can't say that they are and I can't say they aren't. I have to admit that I have my perceptual biases and I am susceptible to having my biased views validated. At my age I have come to expect to be wrong a good share of the time. I just keep plugging away and trying to get at the truth, whatever that is.

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Bob McBride

4:55 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

And that get's me back to my point that the same news organization can be viewed by people who are polar opposites politically as being biased in the other direction.

If we want to see bias, we can always find some. But in truth its as much (or more) about the bias we the news consumer bring to the equation as it is any attempt by a specific news organization to impose bias upon us.

Dave Koven

11:41 am on Monday, March 21, 2011

"Lack of civility"? What irony. There are so many lies, half truths, barely trues, and "pants on fire" statements coming out of politicians these days, that civility seems superfluous. The government does all manner of things in secret. Everything has a "spin" on it. Campaigning candidates present themselves as cliches. Lobbyists have access to those in power, and get things the average voter could never even hope for. Bills are passed filled with so many riders and loopholes that the original intent of the legislation, that the average voter voted for, is lost. The self interest of people running for office, or the incumbent, is staggering. Where are the patriots who put the voter's and their country's needs ahead of their party's needs? Why is education, the one thing that everyone says is the hope of this country, always the first thing to be cut in the budget? It can't be vital to the country and expendable at the same time. What could be more "uncivil" than getting America into wars so frequently? This is expensive, and history teaches us that we end up being trade partners with whoever we were fighting, a relatively short time later. I fear for this country. Dave Koven

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Michael Schwister

1:29 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Hi Dave, I share the same fear you do. These cuts to education , the elderly and the less fortunate are sacrificed first so Corporations can preserve their subsidies(welfare) from us taxpayers. Wait. If this agenda isn't stopped and this voucher bs gets through we will be giving private schools our tax money at the expense of our public school system.

Dennis Bodden

12:03 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Dennis and Mary Jo Bodden

I agree with Jim Sensenbrenner that we ought to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. But we never heard Jim Sensenbrenner rebuke any of the nasty town hall meeting disrupters that were well documented during the health care debate. Nor did he comment when Republicans shouted down Feingold during his reelection campaign.

And just for the record, Jim Sensenbrenner has discontinued his town hall meetings in Shorewood because he was not liking opinions of his constituents there.

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Michael Schwister

1:05 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Hi Bob, By corporate media I am referring to Disney, Time Warner, News Corporation, Liberty Media, Bertelsmann and Viacom. Which pretty much own everything. Suggesting how we should think and live. The era we live in now is "opinion journalism". Sort of like Fox vs MSNBC. To date and the only worthwhile arena for impartial media is the Public Broadcasting System. In my opinion of course.

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Lyle Ruble

2:26 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Michael, It is a myth that we have ever lived in an era of non "opinion journalism" . We just live in a more wired society and are aware of the variety of information we are being bombarded with.

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Bob McBride

3:38 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Michael,

Media has always been "corporate" .

That aside, even if it weren't, you can't get away from someone, somewhere having an influence on what you read or view. The mere fact that someone selectively decides what airs or goes to print and what doesn't means that you're getting a slanted POV simply due to space and time constraints.

"Corporate media" as you choose to call it at least, for the most part, adheres to journalistic standards - less so than in the past, but part of the reason for that is that they're now competing with a medium (the internet) that really has almost no standards whatsoever.

Personally, I think the easiest way to tell if a news outlet is mostly unbiased is if both sides of the equation feel that it's biased in the other direction. Oddly enough, it seems the Journal Sentinal seems to be on the receiving end of exactly that kind of reaction of late.

But the part about this that troubles me the most is the assumption, on both sides, that the average person (someone always not quite as clever as those making the point) isn't aware of the biases and can't filter them out. Do you feel you came to your opinions because you were exposed to specific media outlets? If not, then it would behoove you to extend that same consideration to those on the other side. I've seen blatant stupidity parroted, as well as thoughtful, well formulated opinions expressed, from both sides.

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Bob McBride

3:55 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

I'd like to add as well that I think we've seen lately the NPR in particular has a culture that's far from unbiased - I think WPR can be lumped into that same basket pretty much. That being said, they still produce some interesting programming. And I watch PBS quite a bit. Of the three, PBS tends to be much more along the lines of what I'd call impartial.

CNN, FOX and MSNBC are what I prefer to refer to as infotainment. All of them together do provide excellent coverage of breaking news stories. That alone makes them worth whatever chunk of my cable bill goes to pay their fee.

I'm surprised no one ever mentions Democracy NOW! - one way or the other.

Michael Schwister

2:31 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Thanks Lyle, Appreciate the input for more reliable print sources. It is a shame this became a one newspaper town. Bob is entitled to trap me. My intention is to try to hear reasonable opposing views so I learn. If I have to be corrected on a public forum, so be it. In my opinion, Bob is at least willing to engage and that is more than most republicans I have talked to. Thanks for having my back. Appreciate it.

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Nate

3:13 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Stay classy republicans. "We all marveled at two different instances of "double finger" drive-bys, both birds fully loaded, no hands on the wheel, cell phone in crook of neck."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/19/958223/-Tales-from-the-Recall-Trail:-Alberta-Darling

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Lyle Ruble

4:09 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

I have found over the years that elected official's staff are the one's that get things done. Sometimes it is better to make contact with the staff and get to know them personally.

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Michael Schwister

4:53 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Hi Bob,No argument there. Media has been corporate but news was presented differently. As far as journalistic standards go its what you know and refuse to print that I could take issue with. Where is Bob Woodward when you need him. Without the internet I would have no way of evaluating interpretive media. Perhaps many of the things I learn are wrong but I'll take my chances with me making those decisions rather than hidden government. And I agree about both sides expressing emotion with innuendos designed to polarize us. Your comment on parrot made me laugh. The Libertarian Party website makes statements in writing that in practice are the exact opposite of what they imply. And for anyone that's interested they pay mandatory dues. Yet there army of puppets march on, finding axes as the only tool to our problems. Sorry about the opinion journalism.

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Bob McBride

5:09 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Michael,

I think you mentioned somewhere that you were a union member for significant period of time. I only mention that because the number indicated you've been on the planet for a significant period of time. I think you underestimate your own ability to discern, if not the truth, the nature of what you're absorbing, when in fact your BS detector (something that tends to develop in accuracy over time) is probably a lot better than you think..

I wouldn't worry about "armies of puppets". If they in fact exist, there are enough of them on both sides that they'll keep each other busy lobbing talking points at each other so as cancel each other out.

Michael Schwister

6:31 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Thanks for the comments Bob. What bothers me is that one army is better financed than the other. And yes Bob I do think there is a group of wealthy ego centric individuals that are pulling society's strings. I think there is overwhelming evidence to support my view. I don't think they have my best interest in mind. I don't believe they have your interests in mind. I think their agenda is completely self serving and it is subsidized by us taxpayers. I have always considered my self conservative. I live modestly and within my means. I don't like to carry debt. I value public resources. Education should be a top priority for our country. Everyone should be able to retire with some dignity after contributing a lifetime to society. Not just the well to do and union people. Health care for everyone? What is so terrible about that? I find out now that I am whats called a "liberal" with the same condescending tone as "union" . Really ,I have not seen a plan for the future for our citizens after their usefulness to corporate America has diminished . Or have I missed something someplace. Sorry Bob but I think we may have more in common than appears on the surface. At any rate I am happy to be in company with a group that holds each other accountable. It makes for meaningful exchange. Unedited.

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Lyle Ruble

7:04 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Michael,
One hopes that with age one gains wisdom. With wisdom the veils of youth are raised revealing the source of all our illusions. Once the veils are raised and one is aware, a sadness overcomes the accolade wishing to lower the veil and return to the fantasies of youth.

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Bob McBride

7:04 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Michael,

If you believe that the cards are stacked against you (your wealthy ego-centric individuals that are pulling society's strings), then how do you ever overcome that? Without some sort of savior?

In the 2008 election, that's precisely the card that was played and we were offered a savior who (supposedly) wasn't beholden to special interests, who wasn't jaded by years of playing the game in Washington. And enough of us bit to put him and his party in office. For two years they had virtual free rein to do their best to institute "change".

I don't think anyone can seriously argue that they got what they voted for. In those two years, not only were some promises not fulfilled, but opportunities to address some of the key issues of the campaign were purposely not brought to a vote.

Is that because the "group of wealthy ego-centric individuals" whose party essentially was powerless was still able to wield enough power to prevent those changes from happening? And if so, how did they do that without the complicity of those in power who were, supposedly, representing the other side of the equation?

Once you go down the road of evil, unseen powers who control everything, the anomalies become pretty hard to explain without indicting just about everyone.

Michael Schwister

8:39 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Knowledge, equity and tolerance should lead ignorance,self service and suppression. I would be curious to poll a group like this as to what single issue would make the most significant contribution to responsible government. All of you are active in the conversation that's happening in America everywhere but where we are represented. Bob I have no intention of indicting anyone. I have my sights set on Wisconsinites determining their future. I want everyone engaged. This Republican agenda is expensive. And I detest government telling me the only tool I can yield is an axe. Better watch what we cut with that axe.

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Michael Schwister

8:49 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011

Lyle, Last statement made me smile. I need to get back to fishing and put my blinders on again. I was a happy camper. Now. I am worried.

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Karen

12:52 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Michael, I really enjoy your discourse. You are a very wise person and whether that came with age or you were born that way makes no difference. You seem like the kind of person I would love to have for a neighbor. Thank you to you and Lyle also for your insightful comments.

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Michael Schwister

6:58 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Thanks for the comments Karen. Those that know me best know me as being quick tempered and using unedited speech. This forum allows me to put perspective in what I want to say. Thanks again. I enjoy everyone's insight. This is what our politicians SHOULD be doing. Lyle's comments are thoughtful and I've learned much. And Bob keeps it real. Stay in the conversation and engage others to do so. I find that many people do not know why they believe things to be one way or the other. Education(the kind you get out of school) is our only way forward.

Keith Schmitz

5:09 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Funny that F. Jim didn't feel that way when T-Patry bullies acted out at Democratic Congressional town halls. Noe that he is a target he gets all kumbaya.

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RAK

6:26 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

AJH, Planned Parenthood hasn't worked and is a great waste of taxpayer money. Check out the local hospital records and see how many unwed mothers still give birth. We need a new approach, the cost of from birth through puberty to taxpayers for these fatherless children is enormous. As for Senator Johnson, cut him some slack, he's only been in Washington a very short time and a bunch of things in Washington are taking precedent over things back here right now. Give him the same courtesy that you would bestow upon a Democrat.

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Keith Schmitz

6:31 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

For many women Planned Parenthood is there one source for woman's health related issues, and to cut funding because the anti-abortion movement thinks it will get them into heaven is bad policy. Look how well abstinence worked out for the Palins. As for Johnson, he made his bed with his incredibly classless victory speech. It was one of the worst I have ever heard. The guy is mediocre from the get go and he will shock us if he proves otherwise, especially after beating someone with the exemplary qualities of Russ Feingold.

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Lyle Ruble

6:54 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

RAK,
How can you come out and say the Planned Parenthood hasn't worked. The fact that unwed teems and women are still getting pregnant isn't proof of the effectiveness of PP. There are a number of variables that impact unwed pregnancy. It has to do with income levels, education levels, living locations, culture, access to adequate health care, and nothing to do with PP. The costs associated with the birth by unwed mothers is unacceptable but still minimal when compared to other social costs. Are you suggesting that we practice eugenics and forced abortions. Much of what PP can not be judged with an insane number like birth by unwed mothers. If PP was not available, how many more unwed pregnancies would there be. With the majority of unwed mothers being of African American and Hispanic decent, your statement can be interpreted as an attack on both PP and young mothers of color.
Holding Ron Johnson to a standard that other senators and congressmen are able to achieve is quite reasonable. You are going to have to get used to the fact that he is an accountant and a caretaker for his father-in-law and brother-in-law's businesses. He is no self made man; he is a senator in name only.

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Jaime Sommers

9:24 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Wow, RAK. Planned Parenthood hasn't worked and hospitals have free information? Free family planning?
It isn't character assassination to point out a loudly preached "abstinence" plan that failed.

For anyone who is interested, just to clear up some things and hope you may consider some actual education, NO FEDERAL FUNDS go to abortions, and a Pew Research poll finds that in 2011 36% of Americans believe abortion should be legal most of the time, and 26% believe it should be illegal most of the time (http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm)--or to paraphrase your terminology: a high percentage of Americans DO support it (by the way, there should be no apostrophe in Americans when the word is not possessive) funding Planned Parenthood is not about abortion. It is about health care for women.

A Wall Street Journal poll revealed that over half of Americans believe it is mostly or entirely unacceptable to cut Planned Parenthood's funding. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704728004576176741120691736.html#articleTabs%3Ddocument%26project%3DWSJPDF%26s%3Ddocid%253D110302233016-962e97512a5b45d7b64c022c35d65248%257Cfile%253Dwsj-nbcpoll03022011).

Bob McBride

6:37 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

I'm glad someone finally pointed out the parallel between the tea party folks and the folks who've been protesting the budget repair bill. I doubt that was the intent, but it's on the money.

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RAK

6:59 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Keith, Your opinion of Mr. Feingold sure comes up different from mine, never saw any exemplary qualities exhibited from Russ to me, only self concentrated ego! As a matter of fact he couldn't look me straight in the eye. It was time for a replacement. Then are you for use of abortion for birth control? Enough on the Palins, move on and away from more character assassination, both sides need to stop their personal attacks. We need to work on viable solutions not warped political rhetoric comment.There are other sources for woman's health related issues, free info can be obtained from many hospitals in the area.

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Lyle Ruble

7:12 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

RAK,
You certainly are out of touch with reality. PP provides low cost or no cost health care to women. They are also located in areas that allow much easier access to services, hospitals do not. In addition, how much do you think a hospital would charge for a routine gynecological exam. Get real-sir.

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Michael Schwister

7:33 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Hmmmm. Rak you realize you are attacking a republican sponsored program? I thought Russ was a little out of touch too on some issues. Lesser evil in my opinion to what we have now. For all of you that oppose planned parenthood, how many of you are going to open your doors to unwanted babies, many that will suffer complications due to parental lifestyle. In this debate I have not heard the plan to deal with the aftermath of insensitive ideology. Until that plan surfaces there really is no debate.

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Jaime Sommers

9:39 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

RAK, Which hospitals offer free family planning? Please do post! I need to know.
My understanding is that they refer girls to Planned Parenthood as it's better equipped to handle all of their needs at a lower cost. It's not free from the hospital, never has been and likely never will be. Hospitals used to be free, a Catholic charity....well, that's long gone.

RAK

7:41 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Lyle, So you are an early riser too. I do enjoy your dialogue, Lyle, even though you make some invalid assumptions about me. I agree with the variables impact and also believe that it does cross all income levels, economic and education levels too. Can't understand how one can ignore the facts and reality, if you don't look at that then what do you look at. If would be good to have a truly unbiased factual report on the cost impact to society and the overall failure so far of the approaches we have taken to resolve the situation including health and sex education in schools. All I"m lobbying for is trying something fresh. Whether or not Johnson is a self made man is not an issue for me as I'm willing to give someone with a business background versus a lifetime of only politics a try. He may or may not disappoint me going forward but I will cut him the slack to try. We have all too many congress members on both sides that don't have a clue on how to manage anything nor how their legislative actions may impact the economy negatively albeit inadvertently. Well, got to go , have a meeting.

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Lyle Ruble

8:52 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Governor Scott Walker and the Wisconsin legislative majority exposed…
Someone said to know the truth just follow the money and that’s where you will find it. As a skeptic and cynic, I normally discount conspiracy theories; they are much too difficult to manage and to work consistently enough to make any kind of rational sense. However, with the concerted effort of Republican chief executives and Republican legislative majorities focused on the states’ financial shortfalls and the introduction of almost identical legislation by a number of states; the probability of pure coincidence exceeds reasonable expectations.
I think I fully understand the Republican platform which consists of the following Lebertarian planks:
• Reduce the size of all government; federal, state and local
• With smaller government it will automatically reduce or remove regulations and regulatory authority which controls the conduct of business, allowing for complete self regulation and laissez faire.
• The federal government should be limited to the functions of national defense, building and maintenance of infrastructure to promote commerce and to promote business interest abroad.
• The authority for domestic policy would be turned over to the states to administer as they see fit.
• Privatize all non essential government services.
• The federal government would impose a flat rate income tax on all earned income to all working citizens to fund government operation.

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Lyle Ruble

8:54 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

• Eliminate all inheritance taxes.
• Eliminate taxes on capital gains.
• Elimination of federal funding for education, health care, retirement, unemployment compensation and public welfare.
• Abolish all teacher and public employees unions and collective bargaining.
• Prohibit unions from contributing to political campaigns.
• Make all fifty states right to work states.
• Criminalize all abortion, pornography, and homosexuality.
• Regulate the internet and wireless communication.
• Eliminate personal bankruptcy.
• If states choose to offer public education, then it would be offered only through a voucher system.
• Limit punitive damages through tort reform.
• Eliminate class action law suits.
Keeping in mind the Republican intent, then the legislation presented by Republican dominated legislatures and administrations don’t come as a surprise. However, this has been carefully crafted and funded. Following the money trail leads directly to Koch Industries, Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, the Edgar and Elsa Prince Foundation and a number of others with extreme conservative agendas. Prominent in this group are the Koch Brothers through donations directly to Walker and the Republican Governors PAC. The Koch Brothers have a vested interest in business deregulation and specific interests in the State of Wisconsin.

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Lyle Ruble

8:55 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

In fact they have established a lobbying office in Madison. Where the conspiracy comes in is through two organizations; Americans for Prosperity and the American Legislative Exchange Council. These two organizations have orchestrated the anti-union agenda and have crafted model legislation for Wisconsin’s Republican controlled legislature to follow. The Wisconsin legislatures are not alone and are joined by a large number of state legislatures who have introduced or will introduce the model legislation. Walker is an extreme right wing ideologue and was selected by the Koch Brothers to carry their banner. After the November election the right wing Republicans made a clean sweep and had the perfect opportunity to push Koch’s agenda through. Unfortunately Walker and the Republican legislature are willing marionettes to the Koch Brothers puppet masters. The State of Wisconsin’s citizens will be the ultimate victims of this right wing take over. I encourage everyone to take the time to research. It’s easy now via the web.

Michael Schwister

9:04 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

RAK, Can you verbalize how your life has improved in the last 20 years or so by sending $3000 dollars of your tax money every year to support profitable mega corporations whose executives annual pay packages run in the range of 15 to 20 million annually? That,s $3000 for me and every other taxpayer. Wouldn't it be nice to have the same tax advantage of GE? !8 billion in profit and 0 tax? We can't afford education but we endorse THIS mentality? I maintain that the Republican Party thrives on our ignorance. Small business is hurt by the strategy in play now. Not helped. Everything I place value on is being axed. Everything I find wrong with the way our politics have taken shape is being aided. So I am really interested in how raising our taxes(increasing Corporate Welfare),, robbing the working class of infrastructure paid for by them , and advancing programs aimed directly at lowering our standard of living is in your best interest? I am looking for some meaningful dialog because somewhere we have to find common ground. Even if we don't agree. Love the input.

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Karen

9:17 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Thank you Lyle for exposing the truth. Have read all this and researched it thouroughly but can never just lay it out there so precisely so thank you. This all was started over thirty years ago by the Koch brother's father who helped found the John Birch Society. It has been a thirty year plan and we are seeing it all come to fruition now. We must wake up and fight back which, thanks to Walker's extreme tactics, what we see happening with the citizens in this state. It is wonderful to see people finally getting involved in their democracy and it's about time.

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Michael Schwister

10:14 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Karen. After participating in the Madison protests, and Bob, I'm sure you'll enjoy this, I believe you made reference in previous posts, the chant, THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE, and the experience of listening to 100,000 people say it in unison has impacted who I am as an individual. In the seventies I did some work for a guy in Washington County. After some time I found myself having beers with him and his neighbors and to make a long story short, I was in the company of Birchers. That's how long I have been complacent.

Michael Schwister

10:48 am on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Lyle Thank you for taking the time to expose this. Like Bob said. This conspiracy theory business consumes brain space. I generally dismiss such things, mainly because I was consumed in too many things that weren't important. Following this trail, the history, the players involved and concluding that injustice has been dealt the American people , part of me views them as enemies of the Republic. There well be a case made that they should return the portion of their empires that were financed by taxpayer money. How many school districts could be helped with the money the Kochs pump into the political system? Oh thats right. WE finance our own demise.

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Bob McBride

9:09 pm on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Well after you guys have had all the Koch you can handle, here's another one you can sink your teeth into:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Millions of hours and braincells have been burnt to a crisp obsessing over this timeless classic. It's a favorite of 911 truthers, trilateral commission junkies and Bilderberg connoisseurs alike.

Have at it.

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Karen

10:01 pm on Tuesday, March 22, 2011

Michael,
Funny story about the birchers....would love to hear the longer version some time. I was not the one that mentioned the chant, "THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE" but I love the chant. We were chanting that last Friday, as we were protesting on Lake Drive to get people to stop and sign the recall petition for Alberta Darling and we had a number of people drive by and give us the finger and shout at us........like we were doing something really awful. Most of the people driving by though were very supportive and gave us the thumbs up. I didn't quite know how to take your comment, " that is how long I have been complacent" but I am thinking you were being scarcastic. I started protesting 42 years ago and was one of the first people in this area to hold a Hunger Hike. Do you remember those? Then I moved to California and felt like I had come home to my people. :)

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Michael Schwister

5:49 am on Wednesday, March 23, 2011

Hi Karen, I thought Bob had mentioned that but after looking back at the post I was not accurate. Sorry. My statement about my being complacent is that I have ignored issues most of my life. I believed that our country was safe in the hands of our government. Even if the other side got in we were all in this together. It was a sharp slap to realize that government, now in the firm grasp of libertarians, actually want to steal from whatever pool of society's funds left intact. I am angry with me.

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Karen

7:22 am on Wednesday, March 23, 2011

Your honesty is refreshing Michael. Glad you have seen the light and are fighting to spread it around.

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